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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Arlee MT USA
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    548

    Default DWV.....need advice please.

    One of my hives is showing signs of a worsening DWV problem. I first noticed it a couple months ago, at that time it was only seeing one or two effected bees per hour. Now I've seeing ten in about 30 minutes.

    I want to stay treatment free. All my hives are natural cell foundationless. This hive is a little over one year old.

    Question is, what, if anything should I do.

    Order a new queen? Let it the hive die? Destroy the hive?

    If I was just going to make up a plan on my own I think It would be to remove the old queen, Destroy any queen cells that are formed and then add two frames of eggs from my strongest hive, thus re-queening and providing a brood break to cut down the mite population. Is this a sound theory?

    One problem is that I am leaving for Alaska in a week and won't be back until the first week of july. I have someone who could refill feeders while I am gone but that is about it. Can I afford to wait until then? Weather is as good as it ever gets and everything is in bloom. Hive still seems strong but is behind compared to my others.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Knox Co, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    861

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    I'm not sure what all your options are. One would be to create a break in the brood cycle. You could split the hive into nucs with each have a frame with eggs. You should have new queens just starting to lay when you return.

    Or, you could remove the queen and let the hive raise a new queen.

    I don't think just replacing the queen would be enough right now, assuming you have a hive mite load.

    Tom

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    Quote Originally Posted by TWall View Post
    I'm not sure what all your options are. One would be to create a break in the brood cycle. You could split the hive into nucs with each have a frame with eggs. You should have new queens just starting to lay when you return.

    Or, you could remove the queen and let the hive raise a new queen.

    I don't think just replacing the queen would be enough right now, assuming you have a hive mite load.

    Tom
    Thats about the only choice to remain treatment free. by the time you see DWV you have a huge problem....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Blacksburg, VA
    Posts
    447

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    Brood break and let them raise a new queen. When you get back, you should have a mated queen in a week or so. If the new queen doesn't get mated, install a mated queen.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
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    4,317

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    I split a hive with similar problems into nucs.

    The issue is that while you can see symptoms of DWV, other viruses can become activated as well and are less apparent until you start splitting.

    Only 1 out of about 8 splits resulted in a nuc that looked like it had a resistant queen (they looked normal). The rest looked off-color, etc. .

    The resulting colony ended up starving with my other one, but the theory is sound.

    Split into a challenge to get a resistant colony. It's part trans-generational immune priming, part genetics.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Arlee MT USA
    Posts
    548

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    Interesting. Well, I don't have any nucs on hand and probably don't have time to make any before I have to leave, but I could do four walk away style splits pretty easily and since each split would have a full medium of resources and the main flow is still two months away any viable hives I got out of it would have a decent chance of overwintering.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
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    4,317

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    There's also the attenuated mites/virus hypothesis.
    It takes an average of 3 seasons to get attenuated mites/viruses (DWV).
    So, if you can get them to their 3rd season, you have a shot.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    There's also the attenuated mites/virus hypothesis.
    Sounds interesting WLC! I Googled it but couldn't find much on it, could you explain?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
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    4,317

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    First of all, there has been work that has shown the difference between the Korean and Japanese Varroa destructor haplotypes. The Japanese strain being less pathogenic:

    http://www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted-sites/ac...0/saasp05b.pdf

    Then there's the results from the Martin study of Varroa and DWV in Hawaii:

    http://211.144.68.84:9998/91keshi/Pu.../1304.full.pdf

    It found that after about 3 years, a single (or a few) strains of DWV became dominant in both Varroa destructor and Honeybees.

    So, there's a selection process that singles out (a) DWV strain(s)s from the 'cloud' of DWV strains present.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    Thanks, yes some very interesting info.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    1,976

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    So WLC, I assume you are suggesting the the splits raise their own queens?

    Adam

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
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    4,317

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    Yes. You're trying to select for queens with some type of resistance, or at least for attenuated mites/virus.

    I think that it's better than simply letting the colony fade without benefitting in any way.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Arlee MT USA
    Posts
    548

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    So I think I've decided to split up the hive which is in four mediums right now into four hives that all have a miz of eggs, honey and brood and let them raise new queens and see what I get.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Calvert, Md,USA
    Posts
    1,701

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    Just something to think about,,,,,Your four new hives will be almost two months before you see new bees from a new queen. JMO
    Rick

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    Just about every time I read you the last year you pet topic is the evils of treatment and how we should not be helping the weak or breeding from them.

    So, why you breeding from the weak?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
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    4,317

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    Oldtimer:

    If you were addressing me...

    In my opinion, treatment free beekeepers need some kind of a litmus test.

    I think that producing a split that survives a mite/DWV outbreak is classic resistance selection in the presence of a easily visible 'challenge'.

    So, the resulting colony won't be as 'weak'.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,341

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    >Question is, what, if anything should I do.

    I would see how they are when you get back...

    I occasionally see a few DWV bees. DWV was around long before Varroa, Varroa just spread it faster. A few is not an issue. A lot might be, but what are you going to do anyway? If they survive you have stock that can survive it. If you don't, you removed them from your breeding program. My guess is, based on you needing 30 minutes to see 10 deformed winged bees, that they will survive.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    Yes I can see that WLC and have been thinking about it for a while. Thing is, I now have one hive that was virtually wiped out by mites ie down to a fistful of bees and all brood dead, and then somehow threw them off and survived.

    So my initial reaction when I checked next time and to my surprise found them alive, plus no sign of mites, was WOW! I should breed from them. But later I realised it could be better to breed from the neighboring hive, that didn't get mites in the first place.

    It's a conundrum.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    My situation was different. Plenty of bees, and plenty of crawlers in front of the hive, many with deformed wings and other telltale signs. Couldn't find mites though.

    So, I split before it was too late to do anything other than order new bees.

    However, I ended up ordering new 'resistant' bees anyway.

    Close, but no cigar.
    Last edited by WLC; 06-12-2013 at 07:47 PM.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    6,020

    Default Re: DWV.....need advice please.

    LOL.

    Me and some guys were just talking about Clinton last night. A brilliant communicator, and some great achievements during his Presidency, no doubt he thought he would be remembered as one of the good Presidents.

    Then, in a fleeting moment, too much blood (or something) to the head, screws up, and THAT phrase is how he is remembered.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

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