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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Taylor County, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    fogging seems to let my bees get strong all my hives are doing well and i'm not getting many mites at all this last fogging I got less then 10 for 10 hives and that is just great.
    From your original post:

    I did a mite count with sticky boards before and after the before was real low in all hives{no more then 5 in 48 hours}but it is only the start of the year here.
    So, your total mite count went from 5 per hive to 1 per hive. This even though brood rearing increased. I'm impressed so far. Thanks for this thread!
    Try it. What could happen?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    nashville tn usa
    Posts
    228

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    Anyone ever have the fogger coil clog up....impossible to clean. After fogging do you have to clean out the reservoir/coil?

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SNOW SHOE PA USA
    Posts
    1,268

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    I have not had mine clog I use my fogger once a week and put it in the shed when i'm done and only take the gas tank off works fine so far.
    Say hello to the bad guy!
    year five==== 31 hives==== T{OAV}

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SNOW SHOE PA USA
    Posts
    1,268

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    Just to let everyone know fogging with FGMO is working great for me all the hives I started with this past spring all have new queens and are laying great I have no mite virus and all hives are strong it sure is nice not having to worry about varroa mite or any pest for that matter .
    I have a nuc yard that I have 14 nucs I have been making this year and I have not been fogging them and they have more mites the the big hives I have been fogging so I started fogging the nucs today.
    I would never say some thing was working if it was not and again I am having great success with fogging with FGMO and for all you small timers that might be having a varroa mite problem give fogging a shoot it works for me. No more mites ya.
    Say hello to the bad guy!
    year five==== 31 hives==== T{OAV}

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    nashville tn usa
    Posts
    228

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    thanks for the update...started fogging last week...have one colony with 150 drops in 36 hrs...if it works on this hive it has to be THE best method of control.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SNOW SHOE PA USA
    Posts
    1,268

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    Boy I don't know that's a high drop I started fogging as soon as spring hit i'd fog it weekly for sure or maybe try every 3 days and see. what do ya have to lose? When you fog fog them well I give them around 20 sec per hive good luck.
    Say hello to the bad guy!
    year five==== 31 hives==== T{OAV}

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Forest grove, Ore USA
    Posts
    192

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    When the mites are hit with the VMO do the drop off and die or can they get back up and crawl onto the comb and bees again?

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,947

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    Hi Glock,

    Thank you for posting your results with fogging.

    A couple of questions - I'm not trying to start arguments - but I am trying to understand where foggers are coming from.

    You mentioned earlier that you have some honey supers on. What (if any) are your qualms about fogging with supers on? Are you relying on the "Food Grade" part of the substance name to make it ok to apply with supers on? Do you advertise your honey as "Pure?"

    In rereading my questions I think my core concern is over using a petroleum product in a bee hive and how food purity regulations might apply.

    I sincerely thank you for posting your experiences with FGMO - I'd welcome any thoughts you might have as to the above questions and as to why past experiments with FGMO as a mite treatment have been inconsistent. Do you think regular fogging is more work than many hobbyists are prepared to do?
    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Gloucester County, New Jersey
    Posts
    213

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    Following Andrews post with the same questions and does the wax comb get oily after repeated coatings with oil?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SNOW SHOE PA USA
    Posts
    1,268

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Dewey View Post
    Do you think regular fogging is more work than many hobbyists are prepared to do?
    I think some people {new hobbyist} don't really know how much work and time ya need to put in to your bee's. If ya care about your bees and work hard you will learn how to keep your bees alive.
    I list my honey raw organic and I sell to my customer at my restaurant and I tell them I fog with FGMO and my hives never seen a miticide or and pesticide if code would ever come in and ***** I would just give it away i'm not in it for the money . Fogging has made my bee's stronger then they ever been and I see no mites in my hives and the one I didn't do a brood brake or any form of mite control other then fogging and it's just a monster hive . I have had bees for 4 years now and this year has been the funniest with no mite things go a lot smoother . Like I said I fog once a week and I do it well and I have no mites in my year plus hives and no sign of virus that makes it OK by me.
    Say hello to the bad guy!
    year five==== 31 hives==== T{OAV}

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SNOW SHOE PA USA
    Posts
    1,268

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Honey View Post
    Following Andrews post with the same questions and does the wax comb get oily after repeated coatings with oil?
    No not at all things in the hives are healthy and happy .
    Say hello to the bad guy!
    year five==== 31 hives==== T{OAV}

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,947

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    Quote Originally Posted by GLOCK View Post
    I list my honey raw organic and I sell to my customer at my restaurant and I tell them I fog with FGMO and my hives never seen a miticide or and pesticide
    Maybe I am getting argumentative here - but aren't you using FGMO as a miticide? What organic certifier allows FGMO as a miticide (or grooming enhancer, whatever?)

    CNG says:
    "Mineral Oil, Food Grade (FGMO)
    - Allowed for in hive trapping of small hive beetles and coating of extraction equipment ONLY; prohibited as a fumigant."

    The USDA allowed/prohibited list for organic allows "Mineral oil—for topical use and as a lubricant."

    I understand your bees are doing well (which is your primary concern) and that selling honey is not important to you.


    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    967

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    Miticides chemically kill mites.

    Things that mechanically kill mites, for example by crushing (bee jaws, beekeeper's hive tool) or asphyxiation (drowning in water, FGMO).

    FGMO presents no chemical hazard to life -- in fact it is often used in direct contact with cultured living cells in the process of in vitro fertilization, and is a popular preservative used on wooden cutting boards, butcher blocks, and salad bowls.

    So long as one is not fraudulently claiming compliance with a certification that prohibits its use,
    ethical objections to its use as a mite control are actually entirely semantic.

    Certainly the use of fgmo would not prevent an honest man for promising that no harmful chemicals are used in producing raw honey in hives managed in that way.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cambridge, MD, USA
    Posts
    110

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    I've been following the FGMO threads too, if it works I'll start it next year instead of fumic acid, apivar, etc. Most of those chemicals are nasty.

    I don't get the whole prohibited issue myself, I can go to the store and buy a pint of FGMO and guzzle it if I'm having "stuck plumbing" issues, but I can't fog a bee hive with it??

    Anyway, if it's working and continues to work (being that varroa likely won't build up a tolerance to no breathing), I'll fog next year too.

    Just my ¾¢.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,947

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    @beregondo - thank you for talking me down

    Please understand that I recently had to confine bees to their hives in order to avoid an approved organic pesticide (spinosad) used per label. I'm not at all confident that people who use the term organic understand that the USDA has very specific do's and dont's as regards organic. I use nothing in or on my garden - does that make it organic? In terms of what the word used to mean, yes. OK, this year I'm growing potatoes under straw. I suppose that means I am "using" straw... I didn't check to see if the straw was organically produced and GMO free when I got it. And that might (I'm not going to take the time to research it) disqualify me from using the organic label as currently defined by USDA.

    But back to Glock. His bees are doing well, and that is a good thing. His usage reports will show if bees do well when fogged with mineral oil regularly in the short term. Maybe he'll continue the reports and we'll get long term data. I understand that FGMO is generally regarded as a safe substance. So was asbestos once upon a time. I got some nucs this year that were treated with Apivar (Amitraz). The bees looked great. Am I running out to buy Apivar to use on the hives I have that I treat? No.
    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    967

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    It wasn't my intent to be offensive or confrontational.
    I sincerely apologize, as it appears I was offensive to you.

    I seriously doubt we're going to find any health hazards to using unscented food grade baby (aka mineral) oil to fog hives.

    I'm also following his reports with great interest.

    To date the only 'treatment' my hives have gotten is the brood break that occurs when I split nucs out of them.

    My personal attitude toward USDA's attempts to co opt the term "organic" for the benefit of their primary clients, I should probably not comment on.
    (Ok... shouldn't comment on any more than the last sentence did.)

    Suffice it to say that in my mind government might regulate how a word is used in marketing but lacks the authority to change its meaning.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
    Posts
    880

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    I am following this thread with great interest.

    While some may wonder whether fogging with FGMO is considered "organic" or "treatment free" or safe for human consumption, etc (all important questions if you use FGMO, BTW), I think the more fundamental questions is whether fogging with FGMO works to control mites in the first place.

    While I don't doubt that GLOCK's hives are doing great, if I recall correctly he is also doing other things to control mites plus working with just 10 hives and there is no control. I understand that 9 of the 10 hives had a brood break. Consequently, with all the variables that can happen with just a few hives, we don't really know whether it is the FMGO that is keeping the mites under control and allowing his hives to flourish.

    Can anyone point to a beek who has used only FGMO to control mites and done so with enough hives so that we can have some confidence that it is indeed the FGMO that is keeping the mites in check? Or that the FGMO does have some activity against mites so that when used in combination with other mite control methods it has enough of a beneficial effect to justify the time and effort?

    Just wondering out loud before I go buy a fogger and invest the time to start weekly fogging my dozen hives.
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 14 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    967

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    If I'm not mistaken Don K (Fatbeeman) has been successfully using fgmo + thymol for a few years.

    I believe he as a couple hundred hives, or did until he had a visit by vandals this spring.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    166

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    Shinbone,

    I can point to someone who uses FGMO as well as other things and is a commercial beekeeper. Google "fatbeeman". He is also on youtube and has some videos of FGMO fogging.

    As far as justifying what works and what doesn't; well you are the only one that can make that decision for your situation. Certainly anyone elses success or failure can only be anecdotal.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
    Posts
    880

    Default Re: Started fogging today.

    Beregondo - Thanks for the info.

    I think it is safe to say that it is well known that thymol helps control mites. Personally, I used Apiguard last Fall and witnessed big mite drops and low mite counts the following Spring.

    Does fogging with FGMO add anything to the effects of using thymol on the hives, or is fogging with FGMO and thymol just another delivery method for thymol??
    Last edited by shinbone; 07-22-2013 at 11:26 AM.
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 14 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

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