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  1. #261

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    i really don't see why anyone has to be in this camp or that, i sure don't fit into either.
    Angry debates and diatribes that never sway anyone's opinion. Egos firmly attached to those opinions. You'd think they were arguing politics or religion....and getting the same results as those debates.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  2. #262
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    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    "Angry debates and diatribes that never sway anyone's opinion. Egos firmly attached to those opinions. You'd think they were arguing politics or religion....and getting the same results as those debates." Beemandan.

    Much of it caused by your first post using a put down acronym. IMH (haughty)O.

    I did order Hopgard TODAY! What did you DO in response to or caused by this discussion, fist fight, wrestling match?

    Now that I have ordered the gun I will do a mite check on the targets.

    Now tell me the BEST TIME to apply it. Also...do I apply it to honey supers or just brood containing boxes?
    Julysun elevation 23 feet. 4 Hives, 2 years.

  3. #263

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by julysun View Post
    I did order Hopgard TODAY!
    Did you really?
    Please remember.....this thread was not intended to convert tf folks to the dark side. I might add that I've tried hopguard and am less than impressed. It is not as benign as the manufacturer says....at least in my experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by julysun View Post
    What did you DO in response to or caused by this discussion, fist fight, wrestling match?
    I was itching for a good brawl but found no takers. So...I kicked the dog, pulled the cat's tail then went out and annoyed a boatload of bees.
    Quote Originally Posted by julysun View Post
    Now that I have ordered the gun I will do a mite check on the targets.
    I still am not sure if you are serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by julysun View Post
    Now tell me the BEST TIME to apply it. Also...do I apply it to honey supers or just brood containing boxes?
    Brood box only. 2 strips per ten frames. Wait a week...then do it again, then one more week and one last time (3 applications). They say it can be applied with honey supers on but if it is honey I plan to extract, I wait until those supers have been removed. It might not hurt to have them on but I'm afraid that it would impact the taste.

    So, really....you're just pulling my leg....right?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  4. #264
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    dan, do all of your colonies get treated or just the ones that exceed a threshold infestation rate?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  5. #265
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    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    English Language and Usage...To "pull one's leg", as a saying, does seem to have the etymology you describe; every source I can find states that it dates back to the mid-1800s in England, and refers to physically tripping up another person, which puts him off balance, possibly makes him collide with others in awkward ways, and generally makes him look foolish. It quickly evolved to mean achieving that result - making a person look foolish - regardless of the specific means used. The most popular means to do so is to tell a deliberate plausible non-truth which, if believed, would lead the person react foolishly.

    Now would I do that?

    I ordered thirty bucks worth plus about fourteen for shipping from Mann Lake. Should cover my four hives brood boxes. Also am investigating buying the PIKE from the local brewing products store. Want me to send you a pint?.

    Hope this is not like the bug blasters I installed two weeks ago in a box where I can see SHB. Caught nary a one to date.

    I am not TF. To much like a religion for me. Been a Beek for 13 months and am still learning the ropes.
    Last edited by julysun; 05-27-2013 at 07:06 PM.
    Julysun elevation 23 feet. 4 Hives, 2 years.

  6. #266
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    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    js, i am also using the disposable beetle traps from mann lake and have had success with catching beetles in them.

    for bait i use the juice from rotten banana and an equal amount of apple cider vinegar, and mix it with about 16 oz. of vegetable oil in a used dishwater detergent bottle.

    the bait won't mix with the oil, so you have to shake the bottle good before putting some in the trap.

    sorry dan, off topic again.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  7. #267

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    dan, do all of your colonies get treated or just the ones that exceed a threshold infestation rate?
    Not every hive gets treated but almost all do. If I had to guess, I'd say that over a two year cycle all get a mite check. Post treatment I do spot checks to determine efficacy.
    Those that don't get treated usually have had some sort of overt disturbance during the season...multiple swarms, extended queenless/broodless period or those that are in serious decline and I believe that the treatment will do more harm than good.
    I don't recall ever seeing a vigorous hive test in August/September that didn't exceed my treating thresholds.....and I've had Russian hybrids, Purvis, claimed survivors, ferals, etc,....... oh yeah also small cell, and foundationless.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  8. #268

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    jsorry dan, off topic again.
    I don't mind off topic posts as long as they don't totally redirect the entire thread.
    As in any normal dialog....peripheral questions arise and appropriate answers add to the entire discussion.
    Discussion....not argument.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  9. #269

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Let me paint another picture.
    It’s September…mites at their peak and brood rearing slowed dramatically to make a population of bees to overwinter.
    You test and determine that your miteload is 20%. But wait a minute…that is 20% of the adult population of…say 30,000 bees or 6,000 mites. If…60% of the mites are actually in brood cells….that means as many as 8,000 mites are parasitizing your much smaller population of developing winter bees. And if they are only producing 15000 bees to overwinter….that means as much as 60% will enter the winter seriously weakened.

    Ok….much to do….got to go. Those jars of honey won’t label themselves, that bottling tank won't refill itself and those beeyards need cleaning up before I start pulling some supers in a couple of weeks.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  10. #270

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    PS julysun
    In a different lifetime I did a bit of work in Baytown. In the midst of the Arab oil embargo in the 1970s I drove past the Shell Oil refinery in Baytown. With a huge tank farm in the background, the Shell gas station at the entrance had a sign in front saying ‘Out of Gas’.
    If I'd only had a camera.....

    Speaking of off topic.......
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  11. #271
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    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Exxon oil in Baytown,...my how time flies!
    Ordered sticky paper today. Will do a mite check soon, may use the alcohol wash, will post results.
    Julysun elevation 23 feet. 4 Hives, 2 years.

  12. #272
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    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Hey Square, it is all natural. Using some natural work produced penicillin from dirt fungi. Rocket juice is Hydrazine and Oxygen, all natural.Zink coated nails in your boxes are natural compounds. Hopguard and Formic acid are natural. Treatment Free is a natural method. So is nuke'em with atoms dispersed in some exotic named liquids.
    Julysun elevation 23 feet. 4 Hives, 2 years.

  13. #273
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    Portland, Oregon
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    965

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    Here’s one analogy.
    I’m in an auto accident and hurt my arm. Friends tell me to get it x-rayed. Nope, says I…it ain’t broke….I’ve broken bones before, so I can tell. A couple of weeks later it is even more swollen and painful. Another week passes and I start running a fever. Must just be the flu….darn that arm is swollen and painful. Gangrene? No way….that arm ain’t broke. A week later I die in bed. They do an autopsy and discover fluid in my lungs. Cause of death….pneumonia.
    Here's another analogy:
    I'm in an auto accident and afterward there is a mark on my arm. A few voacl friends tell me to get it x-rayed. Nope, says I…it ain’t broke….I’ve broken bones before, so I can tell. A couple of weeks later the arm functions normally, and there is no pain.

    "Get it x-rayed," they say, "or you'll get gangrene and die. The break is already there, and you can't tell without an x ray test."

    It tell them it might be "broken" but it is functioning very well.

    A year later, they are still warning me of the perils of gangrene, and the importance of x ray testing when the arm is stronger and more productive than it has ever been.
    They're still telling me gangrene will kill me despite a fully functioning, healthy arm.

    I suspect that no matter how many splits thrive, how many nucs nor how many pounds of honey produced, there will still be critics with their heads in the sand warning that if one doesn't put insecticide in his insect colony, they'll all die.

    Some folks just refuse to acknowledge reality regardless of what others see, experience and tell.

    The most an honest man can say is, "I haven't seen it".

  14. #274

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by Beregondo View Post
    I suspect that no matter how many splits thrive, how many nucs nor how many pounds of honey produced, there will still be critics with their heads in the sand warning that if one doesn't put insecticide in his insect colony, they'll all die.
    First...I surely have never said anything even remotely similar to if one doesn't put insecticide in his insect colony, they'll all die.
    Second…you seem to have missed the entire point of my analogy. There are beekeepers who insist that mites aren’t a problem. In reality…they are a serious problem for all of us. Some will have a bee colony collapse and insist that it wasn’t mite related because they didn’t see overt evidence. The reality, in my opinion, is that mites underlie most failures, conventional or tf, whether or not one finds a gazillion dead mites on the hive’s bottom. And that was the point of the analogy. With rare exceptions, regardless of the outward symptoms….mites are part of most failures.

    By your analogy, you are suggesting that the impact of varroa mites in a tf bee colony are the equivalent to a small bruise? That after a few weeks the damage is all done and never to exert any pressure again? Is that your claim?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  15. #275
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    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    By your analogy, you are suggesting that the impact of varroa mites in a tf bee colony are the equivalent to a small bruise? That after a few weeks the damage is all done and never to exert any pressure again? Is that your claim?
    No the mites are not the subject of my analogy.
    The blindness of some who put their heads in the sand and insist that testing is needed, even if there is no indication of a mite problem... those who insist hat despite a long time passing with no symptoms, one must test for an illness (ie, a mite problem).

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    they are a serious problem for all of us
    I think there is a big difference between a hazard to be respected and a problem.

    When mites don't cause problems over a long period of time, they're not a problem.
    Not all of us have a problem with mites.


    To continue to deny that folks are successfully keeping bees without treatments in face of growing testimony to the contrary, and refusing to consider an alternative to spending money on pesticides to put in bee colonies is surely a shining example of...

    Head In The Sand Mite Control
    Last edited by Beregondo; 09-27-2013 at 11:06 AM. Reason: more thoughtful wording

  16. #276

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by Beregondo View Post
    To continue to deny that folks are successfully keeping bees without treatments in face of growing testimony to the contrary, and refusing to consider an alternative to spending money on pesticides to put in bee colonies
    WOW! Where has that happened?!
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  17. #277
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    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Maybe I misunderstood.

    Maybe when one speaks disparagingly of of folks who don't tend to have mite problems and therefore don't test as "sticking their heads in the sand" and makes statements about mites like "they are a serious problem for all of us" (despite the above mentioned fact that there are folks who speak freely of having none..over time, and not noobs talking about all 3 weeks they've had bees) you aren't denying that TF folks don't have a mite problem that they aren't treating for.

    Do you honestly not see how a reasonable person might see such a denial as I mentioned in those comments?

  18. #278

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Let me be sure I understand what you are saying.

    You are suggesting that somehow, even with high mite populations, treatment free bees are not affected by them? You believe that those hemolymph sucking, disease vectoring, brood parasitizing ticks somehow, mysteriously develop a synergistic relationship with bees…simply because one doesn’t treat?
    Or are you claiming that your treatment free bees have no mites….in spite of the fact that you don’t test?
    Or are you claiming that by testing one, somehow, disturbs the above mentioned synergistic relationship between the treatment free bees and mites?

    I am not sure why this makes you so angry.
    I’m not pushing treatments.
    I am not against folks being treatment free.
    I do believe that an objective look at mite levels will tell a beekeeper, treatment free or conventional, a lot.
    And while I think every beekeeper ought to do some sort of count…I don’t care if experienced beekeepers choose not to….but I do worry about the total newbie who reads these things, has no idea what’s going on in his/her hive but figures if the oldtimers don’t test…why should they…..then want to know why their bees didn’t overwinter.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  19. #279
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    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Dan,
    I'd like to point out that regardless of conversations you may have had in the past with other folks, I'm not them.

    And I've no intention to responding to things I infer those others may have said to you, based on the presumptions of what you think I'm saying -- presumptions based on things I didn't say that aren't anywhere near meaning that the words I did say mean.

    I'm saying that in a population with no history of having a particular health problem over a number of years, testing for that affliction is not necessary.

    I'm also saying that when there is a growing body of testimony from folks who don't treat, haven't had mite problems and over a number of years continue to have healthy apiaries, for one to prefer denial of the fact that such folks don't need to test for a problem that they don't have is an excellent example of Head In The Sand Mite Control.

    There's nothing wrong with testing.
    Testing is good and serves a purpose where appropriate.

    But years after the bee hive was "in an accident" if there are still no symptoms of a "broken arm" it's either time to acknowledge the "x ray" test need not be done, or acknowledge that one's head is firmly planted in the sand.
    Last edited by Beregondo; 09-27-2013 at 02:18 PM.

  20. #280

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by Beregondo View Post
    presumptions based on things I didn't say that aren't anywhere near meaning that the words I did say mean.
    Seems like there’s a good bit of that going around today.

    Beregondo (is that really your name?),

    I don’t doubt that your hives are pristine….the picture of health.

    When someone publically makes the statement…. I don’t test and mites aren’t a problem…do you see where a newcomer, reading that statement, with less pristine hives, who might have a serious mite infestation could be lulled into presuming theirs needn’t be counted either?
    As I said…I don’t care if you count ‘em. I am distressed by the number of beginners who wonder why their hives failed from what sounds like classic mite collapse….and who insist that it wasn’t mites and repeat the same stuff they read on the internet.
    This is not uncommon.
    I do not believe they are stupid. Naïve yes.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

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