Page 13 of 15 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 LastLast
Results 241 to 260 of 282
  1. #241
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,945

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    spark,

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...-of-a-dead-out

    what more proof do you need?

    i'll go out on a limb and say that i believe that my mite count proves beyond a doubt that is was primarily mites that caused this hive to dwindle beyond recovery. their dead because i shook them out.

    mites did this. there may or may not have been associated secondary problems. mites did this.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  2. #242
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ka'u Hawaii
    Posts
    169

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    From the Oldtimer on another thread:

    "Mite counts do not reveal virus levels in hives, and it is viruses do the real damage.
    Having said all that I fully recommend anyone starting out does mite counts. You need to do this to learn about mite population dynamics.

    But what I do now, is go by what's actually happening in the hive, and this will be the combined effect of mite levels, virus levels, and ability of the particular bee in that hive to deal with these things.
    The big giveaway a hive is in trouble is PMS (parasitic mite syndrome) in the brood. You will see some abnormal looking cappings, and when you poke a stick in the larva is dead. There will also be dead larvae that didn't get to the capping stage. Some of them look like sac brood, and some of them are still white. If you poke a stick in & do a ropiness test, they don't rope, so you know it is not AFB.
    Visible PMS in the brood indicates the hive is at a critical level, regardless of what the mite count says, as PMS is an indicator of the combined effect of mites plus viruses. Most bee larvae can tolerate one foundress mite in the cell with it. When mite population builds to the point that many worker larvae have two, or more, foundress mites in the cell with them, they cannot cope. the mites, plus their viruses, kill the larvae. This starts a downward spiral that can be pretty quick. Less larvae hatch, the hive gets smaller and has less brood. Mites are forced to go even more to a cell with the larvae, soon little / no brood survives to hatching, the hive dies.

    The other main thing I look for is DWV, an easily seen mite associated virus."

    The thread: http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...em-Alone/page5

    Oltimer is one guy who knows what he is talking about! My experience with the newly arrived mites over the last 3 years matches what he is saying. And my bees have very desirable characteristics; however, they haven't yet demonstrated a great ability to withstand mites without 'assistance'.

  3. #243
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ka'u Hawaii
    Posts
    169

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    At the risk of taking this thread off topic….
    In my opinion, Apis mellifera and Apis cerana were probably a single species at one time. A c is the natural, evolutionary result of the relationship with varroa mites. Had there been no beekeepers and only feral colonies when varroa were distributed into the range of A m, then in the long haul the only honeybee would be something equivalent to A c.
    If survival is the only measure….then we should simply abandon A m and import A c.
    End of problem.

    Funny you should mention cerana, though I've heard it before. Due to my living on a rock half way to Asia, I have had the opportunity to visit several southeast Asian countries along with Korea and Japan during the past few years.
    Flowers are plentiful; however, bees are very rare at least where I've traveled.
    I had a funny experience a couple of years ago when I observed a local over there beating his longan tree (fruit related to lychee) with a bamboo pole. The air was heavy with the pollen. But there were no bees! And he was doing the pollination. So..........I don't know what to say about cerana other than that I seldom have seen them in places where they are supposed to live.

  4. #244

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Gino45...I trust that you knew I was kidding about importing cerana. The only thing that redeems them is their ability to survive (I didn't say thrive) having coevolved with varroa. Otherwise they are practically useless.

    I hold Oldtimer in high regard. He doesn't have his head in the sand. He may not test for varroa but he knows that they are a serious problem.....an essential requirement for HITS is denial of the problems caused by mites.

    ps I visited Kauai a couple of years ago. Went kayaking up a river and the trees lining the river were covered with honeybees. Because of the massive numbers, I assumed most were feral. Have mites gotten there yet?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  5. #245
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,945

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    there's good mites and bad mites

    with ceranae the good mites became less virulent so as to not deplete their host and source of survival equilibrium was reached.

    the varroa mite and the western honeybee are having a difficult time getting there, mostly because of an abundance of honey bee colonies that are kept in near proximity.

    our methods should consider selecting for less virulent mites as well as more tolerant bees.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  6. #246
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Baytown, TX., USA.
    Posts
    651

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    I see that there is a Treatment Free forum, why is there no Treatment forum? Would seem of high priority since mite treatment is the single most important action a keeper must do. Would seem logical to have a place where all the information is collected and presented. Diseases And Pests doesn't seem specific enough, at least to me. In fact Mite Treatment Forum would be better.
    Last edited by julysun; 05-25-2013 at 08:43 PM.
    Julysun elevation 23 feet. 4 Hives, 2 years.

  7. #247
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Coopersville, Michigan
    Posts
    261

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by julysun View Post
    I see that there is a Treatment Free forum, why is there no Treatment forum? Would seem of high priority since mite treatment is the single most important action a keeper must do. Would seem logical to have a place where all the information is collected and presented. Diseases And Pests doesn't seem specific enough, at least to me. In fact Mite Treatment Forum would be better.
    I think that is because treatment is talked about in every other forum... and there is more to it than just varroa. It's kind of like asking why you don't have European history month in America...it's because that's what's taught most of the time. My guess is you'll find what you need in diseases and pests if that's the road you take.

  8. #248
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,945

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    as i was thinking more about selecting for less virulent mites, (and deselecting for more virulent ones),

    i realized that i had missed an opportunity with the dwindled hive i discussed in the thread i linked to in the above post.

    when i found that colony collapsed down to a handful of bees, with more mites than bees, i should have closed it up and put it in the freezer instead of shaking the bees out.

    that way i would have destroyed that population of colony collapsing mites and would not have given them a chance to enter any of my other hives.

    live and let learn.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  9. #249
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ka'u Hawaii
    Posts
    169

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post

    I visited Kauai a couple of years ago. Went kayaking up a river and the trees lining the river were covered with honeybees. Because of the massive numbers, I assumed most were feral. Have mites gotten there yet?

    The latest I heard is that Kauai doesn't have mites; however, they do have the hive beetle. So it would be interesting to know how much trouble the beetles cause without the mites to set them up. Over here the beetles are quick to finish the job once the mites wear the hive down.

    FWIW, I understand there are quite a few hobby beekeepers there as well. Hopefully some day I will visit there again.

  10. #250

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    as i was thinking more about selecting for less virulent mites, (and deselecting for more virulent ones),
    I understand that Seeley's work has suggested the possibility of a less virulent mite but I don't think there are any completed studies to support it.....but I'm certain that there are a number of such studies underway.
    It would add some interesting possibilities.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  11. #251

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    What I'm saying is that no one has proven without a doubt that it is just mites that have killed a hive or any other factor. .
    I believe that any reasonable person who understands the lifecycle and parasitic impact of varroa on a bee colony will acknowledge that they are an extremely destructive pest. Those same reasonable people will also accept that the heavier the mite load, the more damage they do.
    Is it my mission to prove that mites were the sole reason a colony of bees collapsed? Nope.
    Do I hope to get the attention of some reasonable people who have somehow gotten the misguided impression that mites aren’t a big deal? Yep.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  12. #252

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by Gino45 View Post
    Hopefully some day I will visit there again.
    Me too.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  13. #253
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,945

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    I understand that Seeley's work has suggested the possibility of a less virulent mite but I don't think there are any completed studies to support it.....but I'm certain that there are a number of such studies underway.
    It would add some interesting possibilities.
    thanks dan, i wasn't aware of seeley's work.

    by less virulent or good mites, what i mean are mites that keep their population low enough and achieve equilibrium with the host colony without collapsing it.

    i assume that is what is happening in the established tf operations, alongside with the bees developing better resistance.

    i suggest that the beekeeper can help this process along by preventing spread via robbing, and euthanizing the colonies (mites and all) that get to the point of no return.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  14. #254
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,627

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    thanks dan, i wasn't aware of seeley's work.

    by less virulent or good mites, what i mean are mites that keep their population low enough and achieve equilibrium with the host colony without collapsing it.

    i assume that is what is happening in the established tf operations, alongside with the bees developing better resistance.
    .
    That's just an assumption, though. It could be many are just aggressively splitting and using the brood break to stay ahead of varroa. For hives surviving long term it could be an equilibrium has been found with some combination of shorter brooding seasons, lower populations, higher Hygenic behavior or maybe even cell size. To those afflicted with "HITS" syndrome its not really important. Their perspective is we don't care to find out because it really dosent change anything. Either they survive or they don't, what difference does it make why they die.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  15. #255

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    i wasn't aware of seeley's work..
    Tom Seeley is quite brilliant…in my opinion.
    In one piece of research he was looking at feral bee colonies in a remote location….many miles from any managed hives. He had done similar studies in the late 60s and wanted to see how the feral populations compared today.
    He found a number of them…and upon testing discovered that they often had huge miteloads (Seeley is not a HITS guy). After some follow up examination he decided that lower mite virulence might explain how the colonies survived.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  16. #256

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    In the event that anyone is still following this….let me paint a picture for you.
    We tend to think of varroa mites as bee blood sucking, disease vectoring parasites….and they are. But this is only one piece of their destructive power.
    I’ve heard it estimated that 60+% of the mites in a bee colony are in their reproductive stage within the brood cells at any given time.
    As the season winds down, your bees slow down their brood production…at the same time the mite population is at its peak. Less developing brood to infest….more mites. The mites/brood number skyrockets. As a result a substantially higher percentage of developing brood is parasitized… many ending up with multiple foundress mites reproducing on an individual developing bee. …..at a time when it is especially important for your bee colony to produce its most durable bees….those that must endure the winter.

    And then so many wonder in the spring why last year's boomers are gone.

    Ok...I've restrung and refueled the weedeater...now I must load the truck. I've got bees to check and yards to clean up.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  17. #257

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    It could be many are just aggressively splitting and using the brood break to stay ahead of varroa.
    Which is one reason that many knowledgeable entomologists believe that AHB survive varroa.
    They tend to swarm themselves into oblivion and abscond at the drop of a hat. Brood breaks are common for them. We shouldn’t be surprised. As tropically evolved bees, their ancestors didn’t really need to worry about overwinter stores. In their native range something is in bloom year round….which is also part of the reason they don’t do well in northern climates.

    Now I'm outta here for real.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  18. #258
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Schenectady County, NY
    Posts
    80

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
    When the pro treatment guys stop having 30%+ losses I'll start treating.
    As far as for myself - I'll consider changing my ways only if they do consistently better with treatments and I do consistently worse without.

  19. #259

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    Quote Originally Posted by karu View Post
    As far as for myself - I'll consider changing my ways only if they do consistently better with treatments and I do consistently worse without.
    Yeah...my thinking exactly. If I ever consistently do as poorly as they do....I'll quit treating.....oh wait....that's what you said....right?
    Ah well...I guess those tf/treatment arguing folks just can't survive without expressing their opinions....and haven't figured out where to do so.
    Maybe I need to start a new thread for them...........
    Does anyone think that they'll leave this one alone if I do?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  20. #260
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,945

    Default Re: HITS method of mite control

    same 'ol stalemate.

    the common ground whether treatments or not is the need for overcoming losses with a viable method of making increase, (thanks mike palmer),

    and in the process helping the genetics along by careful selection (and deselection).

    there's nothing natural about keeping bees in a box, locating colonies in close proximity to each other, disturbing them on a regular basis, and taking resources from them.

    i see risks and benefits from both approaches.

    but to the op and hits, it seems to me that varroa is out there doing its thing whether one chooses to pay attention to it or not.

    i say to each his/her own, your choices determine your outcomes good and bad.

    it is challenging for the beginner though, as there is so much to take in anyway.

    for me, exploring the unkown with trial and error experimentation is what makes this so addicting.

    i really don't see why anyone has to be in this camp or that, i sure don't fit into either.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

Page 13 of 15 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads