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  1. #41
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    Cool Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDiamond View Post
    You havenít listed any food crops that have suffered a yield loss due to an insufficient supply of pollinators...
    Well geeeeee Iím sure almond growers are spending $100,00 - $200.00 per hive to pollinate their groves because there are an ample number of pollinators to go around, same with the other growers I mentioned, and if that aint good enough evidence donít bring bees to California next spring and see what happens seems like the growers donít have enough pollinators even with honeybees. QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDiamond View Post
    You also havenít listed any specific wildflower species that diminished in abundance over time in farm areas and then went extinct due to an insufficient supply of pollinators.
    I donít think I ever mentioned anything about wildflowers going extinct so why would I mention any?? Sorry.
    Iím really not that serious

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    Yes.. that is what he is asking. I don't know if he is paid or not, but it is a valid question... No?
    I'm sure he's asking about pollinators other than honey bees or I could beeee wrong
    Iím really not that serious

  3. #43
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    Cool Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDiamond View Post
    It's a very simple request: Someone tell me of an example of a bee pollinated crop where the yield per acre one year (or multiple years) was reduced by even 10% due to a shortage of available bees. If no one knows of many case history examples of that happening then no one can legitimately claim there is a looming pollination crisis that threatens the food supply.
    Thought we were talking about pollinators other than honey bees. Well answer me this Riddler. Why do farmers spend millions of dollars to have their crops pollinated??? Answer: because they would suffer reduced yield. Don't believe ME ask a farmer they ain't stupid and don't invest money unless there is a larger return on that investment. If ya want numbers ask the state ag extention agent an then get back to us.
    Iím really not that serious

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I'm sure he's asking about pollinators other than honey bees or I could beeee wrong
    Mac - I think you are assuming native pollinators should be able to handle the pollination of monocrops. When you create a monocrop, you create an ideal place for fungus and many pests. In a monocrop of any size this will require some means of controlling these pests and fungi..... else you will have a very reduced crop and not be profitable. As soon as you apply the pesticide... whammo... the natural pollinators are dead. Here is where the commercial pollinators come in, they only stay long enough to pollinate the crop and leave before the pesticides come out.
    ďDonít tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.Ē - The Quran

  5. #45
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    Big Grin Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by D Coates View Post
    I also need a confirmation of whether he's the Queen of England and if he wears boxers or briefs.
    He is and boxers AND briefs :-)
    Iím really not that serious

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    Mac - I think you are assuming native pollinators should be able to handle the pollination of monocrops. When you create a monocrop, you create an ideal place for fungus and many pests. In a monocrop of any size this will require some means of controlling these pests and fungi..... else you will have a very reduced crop and not be profitable. As soon as you apply the pesticide... whammo... the natural pollinators are dead. Here is where the commercial pollinators come in, they only stay long enough to pollinate the crop and leave before the pesticides come out.
    Yes of course however he has indicated that native pollinator populations were NOT being desimated “You havn't listed any food crops that have suffered a yield loss due to an insufficient supply of pollinators” My contention is that there IS an insufficient supply of pollinators because of just what you mentioned and that is why we need to pollinate just about every thing with honey bees. Now that should beeeee as clear as mud.
    Iím really not that serious

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Yes of course however he has indicated that native pollinator populations were NOT being desimated
    Surely he would not think that. Long before the Neonics came along the native pollinators were gone.
    ďDonít tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.Ē - The Quran

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Thought we were talking about pollinators other than honey bees. Well answer me this Riddler. Why do farmers spend millions of dollars to have their crops pollinated??? Answer: because they would suffer reduced yield. Don't believe ME ask a farmer they ain't stupid and don't invest money unless there is a larger return on that investment. If ya want numbers ask the state ag extention agent an then get back to us.
    Fine, fine, but - ARE farmers, as a matter of fact, reporting a reduced yield right now? By whatever channel those kinds of reports are made?
    Beeless since 2012; coming back in 2014. Suffering from apicultural withdrawal!

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd


  10. #50
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDawg View Post
    Perhaps the yield per acre is not that greatly affected, but the total acreage one can farm is greatly increased.
    ďDonít tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.Ē - The Quran

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDawg View Post
    Interesting Rebuttal:http://www.whybiotech.com/resources/...nse-to-UCS.PDF Excerpts:

    "Surprisingly, while the report mentions ‘wealth of data on yield under real-world conditions’ it fails to use these data. The report focuses on corn and soybean, omitting the extensive data available from cotton and canola. Finally, the report focuses on the US, omitting the results from the rest of world. Collectively, these omissions in the UCS report serve to distort the actual situation."

    Summary:
    "The current generation of GM crops were designed to preserve OY, and have succeeded in doing so around the world. Furthermore, they have made substantial contributions to sustainability indicators and have succeeded in decreasing the agricultural footprint in the environment. These factors alone are enough to justify the use of GM crops as part of an overall strategy for agricultural development around the world."

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDiamond View Post
    Interesting Rebuttal:

    "Surprisingly, while the report mentions ‘wealth of data on yield under real-world conditions’ it fails to use these data. The report focuses on corn and soybean, omitting the extensive data available from cotton and canola. Finally, the report focuses on the US, omitting the results from the rest of world. Collectively, these omissions in the UCS report serve to distort the actual situation."
    And yet:

    http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/dem...among-farmers/

    "Interest and demand for non-GMO corn seed among US farmers is growing, according to seed suppliers who say that higher yields and returns, less cost, dissatisfaction with genetically modified traits, and better animal health are driving the demand.

    Tim Schneider, a sales representative for Tom Eischen Sales in Algona, Iowa, said he is selling 20 times as much conventional, non-GMO corn seed as GM this year. “Demand has been steadily going up,” he says.

    “Demand has never been higher. We are growing faster than what we can handle,” says Will Trudell, vice president of De Dell Seeds."

    http://www.dailytech.com/US+Farmers+...ticle19802.htm

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/20...otech-backlash

    "Even as most farmers embrace genetically modified crops, some producers are casting a critical eye on the technology. Corn Belt farmers complain loudly about the soaring cost of seed. The federal government is investigating the industry for anticompetitive practices. Farmers are grappling increasingly with weeds that have grown resistant to Roundup, an herbicide widely used with genetically modified crops, and genetic contamination of conventional crops."

    "But with rising costs and recent resistance to herbicides, biotech seed has become less favorable and farmers are taking notice. For instance, last year, the price of biotech soybean seeds rose 24 percent while corn seed rose 32 percent. The U.S. Justice Department is investigating the anticompetitive practices of Monsanto, and Monsanto is countering by saying it plans on offering more seed options at lower prices next year."

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Hey BlueDiamond,

    I'm curious--how are your bees doing? Do you prefer Italians, or Carniolans? How many hives to you have now?

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDiamond View Post
    Interesting Rebuttal:http://www.whybiotech.com/resources/...nse-to-UCS.PDF Excerpts:

    "Surprisingly, while the report mentions ‘wealth of data on yield under real-world conditions’ it fails to use these data. The report focuses on corn and soybean, omitting the extensive data available from cotton and canola. Finally, the report focuses on the US, omitting the results from the rest of world. Collectively, these omissions in the UCS report serve to distort the actual situation."

    Summary:
    "The current generation of GM crops were designed to preserve OY, and have succeeded in doing so around the world. Furthermore, they have made substantial contributions to sustainability indicators and have succeeded in decreasing the agricultural footprint in the environment. These factors alone are enough to justify the use of GM crops as part of an overall strategy for agricultural development around the world."
    Also interesting to note the the author, Wayne Parrot, is the head of the ParrotLab at UGA: "Our laboratory conducts research on crop genetic engineering, although its members also use molecular markers as a tool for transgene deployment and work in gene discovery. The bulk of the work deals with the development of protocols for somatic embryogenesis and genetic transformation of soybean, switchgrass, alfalfa, rice and maize. We are part of the Department of Crop & Soil Sciences and the Institute of Plant Breeding, Genetics and Genomics at The University of Georgia in Athens, Georgia." Not exactly what I would consider an unbiased source of information given the likely financial ties between the lab and the biotech industry.

    Also interesting to note that one of the references for in the bibliography is the Keystone Group, a well-known pro-industry organization that has a well documented history of accepting lots of money from their clients, and then (surprise!) authoring highly favorable "scientific reports" that support their client's endeavors: http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/jr...ependence.html

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDawg View Post
    And yet:

    http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/dem...among-farmers/
    "Interest and demand for non-GMO corn seed among US farmers is growing, according to seed suppliers who say that higher yields and returns, less cost, dissatisfaction with genetically modified traits, and better animal health are driving the demand.
    I get my GMO crop adoption information from actual USDA statistics, not from the "Organic & non-GMO Report."

    Examples:
    http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-product...x#.UaQ43uB8v8s

    "Herbicide Tolerant soybeans went from 17 percent of U.S. soybean acreage in 1997 to 68 percent in 2001 and 93 percent in 2012."

    "Plantings of Herbicide Tolerant cotton expanded from about 10 percent of U.S. acreage in 1997 to 56 percent in 2001 and 80 percent in 2012."

    "The adoption of Herbicide Tolerant corn, which had been slower in previous years, has accelerated, reaching 73 percent of U.S. corn acreage in 2012."

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/bu...yuZBsB051uWJw&

    "The Non-GMO Project was until recently the only group offering certification, and demand for its services has soared. Roughly 180 companies inquired about how to gain certification last October, when California tried to require labeling (the initiative was later voted down), according to Megan Westgate, co-founder and executive director of the Non-GMO Project.

    Nearly 300 more signed up in March, after Whole Foods announced that all products sold in its stores would have to be labeled to describe genetically engineered contents, and about 300 more inquiries followed in April, she said.

    “We have seen an exponential increase in the number of enrollments,” Ms. Westgate said."

    And on Saturday, an estimated 2,000,000 people took to the streets in over 52 countries to protest against GMO foods in general and Monsanto in particular. The size and scope of the global protest was unprecedented, never before have so many people from all around the world shown up to protest against a specific corporation:
    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/..._source=feedly and http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...santo/2361007/

    "And in a new paper funded by the US Department of Agriculture, University of Wisconsin researchers have essentially negated the “more food” argument as well. The researchers looked at data from UW test plots that compared crop yields from various varieties of hybrid corn, some genetically modified and some not, between 1990 and 2010. While some GM varieties delivered small yield gains, others did not. Several even showed lower yields than non-GM counterparts. With the exception of one commonly used trait—a Bt type designed to kill the European corn borer—the authors conclude, “we were surprised not to find strongly positive transgenic yield effects.” Both the glyphosate-tolerant (Roundup Ready) and the Bt trait for corn rootworm caused yields to drop."
    Last edited by BigDawg; 05-28-2013 at 01:39 AM.

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    BigDawg, the USDA statistics show an overwhelming majority of corn and cotton belt farmers prefer GMO seeds. Earlier in this thread Jim Lyon (who lives at the western end of the Midwest corn belt) pointed out some of the reasons why so many farmers prefer GMO seeds: "indirectly there is a huge yield benefit as weeds, insects and drought all take a huge toll on yield and they are all problems that genetic modification addresses."

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDiamond View Post
    "indirectly there is a huge yield benefit as weeds, insects and drought all take a huge toll on yield and they are all problems that genetic modification addresses."
    That’s just not accurate
    Iím really not that serious

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    yes it is, may I add fuel savings and increased soil health and structure
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Monsanto GMO products contribute to ccd

    This thread is wondering off into areas that have little to nothing to do with beekeeping.
    Regards, Barry

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