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Thread: brood disease?

  1. #1
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    Exclamation brood disease?

    I just did an inspection on a nice strong hive today that appears to have a Brood Disease. I am a newer Beekeeper , so please take it easy on me if I am not explaining it properly. The course I am taking did a Lab on Brood diseases and I saw AFB in Late stages there.

    But what I am seeing is a very few amount of cells that are slightly uncapped with pin holes in them , and when I scratch them open , I see a rubbery brownish pupae with an undeveloped head . The hive has great brood patterns and is very strong as well .
    I am a little worried , because I have never dealt with a Brood disease other than Chalkbrood at the course I am taking , that I found when I went through a hive to assess it for issues.

    Could this be Sacbrood ?

    I did alert my Bee Health Inspector today Via email .

    But I wanted to hear what your thoughts were ?

    Do you need a picture or does this sound like something you have had before?

    Thanks

    Ben L
    Ben Little <The Little Bee Farm> https://www.facebook.com/TheLittleBeeFarm
    Nova Scotia Canada

  2. #2
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    Not enuf info.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  3. #3
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Little View Post
    But what I am seeing is a very few amount of cells that are slightly uncapped with pin holes in them , and when I scratch them open , I see a rubbery brownish pupae with an undeveloped head . The hive has great brood patterns and is very strong as well .

    Could this be Sacbrood ?
    Sounds like Sac. Does the dead pupa appear to have a thin membraneous sac around it?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    I will pull out some tomorrow and take photos.
    Ben Little <The Little Bee Farm> https://www.facebook.com/TheLittleBeeFarm
    Nova Scotia Canada

  5. #5
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    Hit em with some terramycin just in case, sounds like sac brood and somtimes bad varroa outbreaks can cause that

  6. #6
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rcard86 View Post
    Hit em with some terramycin just in case, sounds like sac brood and somtimes bad varroa outbreaks can cause that
    Isn't Sac Brood a viral disease? If so, an antibiotic would not help. Seems an inspector once told me the best thing for SB was a good honey flow....
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  7. #7
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    I was suggesting usning it as a preventative in case hes in the early stages of AFB

  8. #8
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    I was suggesting usning it as a preventative in case hes in the early stages of AFB
    Terramycin will clear up the symptoms for a few months. If he has AFB (and I am in no way suggesting that he does), he's got it. No preventing it at this point.
    Try it. What could happen?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    Ive had a few people tell me the bacteria is always present in the hives, and it only becomes active when nutrients run out or the hive becomes stressed

  10. #10
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rcard86 View Post
    Hit em with some terramycin just in case, sounds like sac brood and somtimes bad varroa outbreaks can cause that
    Not a good idea in my opinion until what is going on has been determined. At first it sounds like it could be AFB or sacbrood, though nothing about a waterfilled sac was mentioned. That's why I wrote not enuf info. Jumping from assumed diagnosis to treatment suggestions is beyond premature.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  11. #11
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rcard86 View Post
    I was suggesting usning it as a preventative in case hes in the early stages of AFB
    If what he desscribes is AFB it is not early stages, it is time to burn.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  12. #12
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rcard86 View Post
    Ive had a few people tell me the bacteria is always present in the hives, and it only becomes active when nutrients run out or the hive becomes stressed
    Yes, the spores seem to always be around, like the rhinovirus which causes the common cold. That doesn't mean you should always medicate to prevent its occurance.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  13. #13
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    I have Oxytet coming tuesday. But If it is the dreaded AFB I know it won't help.

    There has been some testing done on shaking bees out into new equipment and new foundation , causing them to use up any spores or something to rid of the disease.

    Anyone try this ?

    I just hope it isn't AFB . But that is just how lucky I am .

    Ben
    Ben Little <The Little Bee Farm> https://www.facebook.com/TheLittleBeeFarm
    Nova Scotia Canada

  14. #14
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    Don't assume it is AFB yet. It could easily not be.

    What you're talking about is the shook swarm method. It's controversial. You still have to burn your equipment, but you save the bees. The only surefire medication for AFB is fire.

    Try it. What could happen?

  15. #15
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    Sackbrood occurs in the prepupa stage, when the larvae straightens out with it's head facing the cell opening. The clear sack develops and fills with fluid and the head and front third of the prepupa raises up like the front of a boat. The prepupa are easy to remove with a match stick and if the sack is broken it is watery and granular. The cappings are often all removed by the adult bees or the cells are never capped. The color progression of the sick brood is white, light yellow, light brown with the head and front part darker brown.

    This is a virus disease so no antibotic treatment will do an good. I have saved colonies by removing frames with diseased brood and replacing with capped brood from other colonies. I prefer to requeen as soon as I can.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    Yeah the head was sticking up like that, and ones that I saw were a light brown, It's really windy and cold today , I can't open them today , but I will ASAP .

    What causes sacbrood ? not saying it is that.

    Ben
    Ben Little <The Little Bee Farm> https://www.facebook.com/TheLittleBeeFarm
    Nova Scotia Canada

  17. #17
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    Quote Originally Posted by JStinson View Post
    Don't assume it is AFB yet. It could easily not be.

    What you're talking about is the shook swarm method. It's controversial. You still have to burn your equipment, but you save the bees. The only surefire medication for AFB is fire.

    "Try it. What could happen?" What could happen is like the guy in the video he doesn't have AFB. The guy in the video is too overcautious. Did he burn his pants and his whole bee suit? There are better Shook Swarm videos out there.

    But, the first step is finding out what Ben Little's bees are suffering from.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  18. #18
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    But, the first step is finding out what Ben Little's bees are suffering from.
    I agree. I was not suggesting that Ben do this. He mentioned something about "shaking bees" to control AFB. I thought he might be interested to know about that method a little more.
    Try it. What could happen?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    Okay. I guess I was confused by your tag line.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  20. #20
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    Default Re: brood disease?

    Hi Ben, I can relate to worrying about AFB. I haven't been at this that long and since AFB is such a daunting disease that can apparently hit anybody's bees even very strong bees that rob other colonies and something that someone wouldn't normally see in an apiary visit I can only be overwhelmed by the thought of ever getting it. Also my bees find any equipment in seconds so I would think it would be tough to keep from spreading.

    I will say that you have some great beekeepers here helping you with your questions!!! They have helped me immensely and I hope to meet some of them face to face maybe one day like at the EAS conference or something When you send some pictures I'm sure it will help the online diagnosis.

    Could you call a bee inspector to come? I called one this year. The inspector came within a week. They took samples and sent them to USDA. It took 2 weeks to get the results and things turned out ok and it is free. It is nice to get an official diagnosis of good health in your bees. We love our bees, there is a big time investment in them, they are valuable, and one doesn't want diseases to spread so this is a great thing to seek info about and stop asap. If everyone stops AFB as soon as possible it will really help the bees.
    Pictures will get you straight answers on this site. It has helped me.

    I actually have a follow up question that I think is on topic with this that I am curious about. If all of the frames are burned but the boxes are just torched in a big way with one of these wouldn't that kill the AFB without completely destroying the equipment?

    There is a video along with the product. I saw some other beekeepers torching the boxes with this type of torch in videos and I figured it was to kill spores.

    http://www.harborfreight.com/propane...ter-91037.html

    I wish you luck Ben!

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