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Package bees keep leaving...

14K views 40 replies 18 participants last post by  chr157y 
#1 ·
Hi everyone... I'm new at this so any help is appreciated. I built a cedar TBH and added about 2 lbs of bees last Saturday that a beekeeper shook from an existing L hive. We both saw the queen go in. (no cage) Gave them about 10 bars worth of space. Been feeding 1:1 sugar syrup. TBH has a wooden bottom...no screen. I noticed they stayed clumped and didnt seem interested in building comb. I let them out Monday around noon since a few found a small exit and they started gathering like crazy. Noticed many bees entering with tons of pollen on their legs (5ea 3/4" holes and 2ea 1" holes at the end on the top; so I could see which size they liked best). By Tuesday afternoon the hive was empty and I found them in my neighbors' tree. I captured and returned them to the hive, this time with 20 bars of space, and have kept them fed but locked in. Many are clumped in one spot and many are active around the hive, but none are building comb. I do not have any to get them started. There is a dog that barks about 30 feet behind my fence on occasion. I do not believe that bothers them much because they seem gentle. I caught the swarm and check the feeder with no gear. Occasionly I'll get buzzed but nothing close to aggressive. I have only looked in the observation window about 5 times over the last 2 days. Any ideas to make them stay? Am I doing something wrong? Fire away with any questions. Thanks...
 
#7 ·
Sounds like there is something about the environment in your hive that the bees don't like. What kind of ventilation do they have? Is there a way for them to easily get fresh air, but without too much of a draft?

If your outside ambient temperature is high, as it is here, and the hive is in direct sun, it will be too hot inside the hive for a small starter colony to deal with efficiently. They will need shade, at least until they are much stronger.
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the tips. I'll try the oil. Where the bottom board meets the sides there is a small crack the length of the board. They actually line it at times, maybe blowing in air? I'm near Dallas but its not hot yet. They came from a hive just north of Dallas. I'll try the shade.
At what point do I let them out? Should I catch the queen and cage her?
 
#9 ·
It's amazing how hot the inside of a box in the sun can get. Once they have good shade, I'd give them a small entrance soon, if they're still alive. Being trapped in a closed box in the sun, without access to fresh water, is a recipe for disaster. Caging the queen would be counter-productive, since they need brood as soon as they can possibly start and grow some.
 
#11 ·
UPDATE: I added water, shade, and found some old piecies of sticky comb in the box they came in. I rubbed the comb on the top bar guides and stuck very small pieces on. I opened the entrance to let them out. Lots of foragers now for three hours. Just checked on them and they are ALL clumbed in the corner and no doubt ready to bolt again. Not even getting near the wax pieces. So...I guess they are just refusing the hive. Are there any keepers near Fort Worth/Dallas Texas willing to make a deal and trade bees...especially if you need to split a TBH and have an empty L hive? I am at your mercy! Thanks...
 
#13 ·
Maybe it's the cedar? I've heard of other peoples using cedar for their hives, but I've always wondered how that worked out. I thought cedar had insect repellent properties, but I'm not positive about it. I do a search for cedar insect repellent and I get pages of cedar products for that purpose. So... Maybe it's the box you are using.
 
#15 ·
GOOD NEWS! Bubbles was right! I do see a tip of a comb already about 4 inches top to bottom. Bad news is now I have ants crawling in to get to the sugar water. I know sitting the legs in oil is an option, but has anyone ever tried diatomaceous earth? Any other ways to get rid of ants? I just got some lemongrass oil too....should I still add a couple of drops? Am I safe to uncover the entrance of the hive now? Sorry...lots of questions. Thanks so much everyone for helping this clueless keeper trying to learn!!??!! These little critters are just plain cool.
 
#17 ·
UPDATE: Entrance is open. Last night I put the hive legs on flat pieces of wood and piled DE around the legs to make sure the ants would have to crawl through it to get to the legs. This morning...no more ant trails. Now to make sure the bees arent curious and check out the white piles below the hive. Thanks again for all the help everyone. I'll keep y'all posted...
 
#18 ·
Haha, RacerX, you seem to be telling my story this year. It's my first year beekeeping, and I already had a package of Carniolans abscond a few weeks ago. It was quite hot (mid/high 90's) all week, and then dropped quite cool (high 50's) for a few days. I didn't have a bottom board on (was just using a screen) at the time, and think that plus the fact I was checking in on them every day to refill the small makeshift feeder I was using, was just too much for them.
...I had also spilled some sugar syrup with an accidental knock while refilling my feeder, and after the ants had cleaned that up they discovered the feed I was using inside the hive.

I've since added a removable bottom board, cleaned the hive body out from all existing ants, and added diatomaceous earth (recommended by our friendly fellows here on beesource) around the cinderblock supports the hive legs are standing on. I did a passive install with my new package of Italians 4 days ago with a larger feeder. There are no signs of ants though a few dead powder-covered bees are near the cinderblocks, as I expected some would be. And I've only peeked once at the bottom board slightly, where I have a bunch of hopeful looking wax shavings.

I think my downfall was the bees' inability to temperature regulate by themselves, and my constant pestering of them, while the ant problem no doubt added to their irritability. So as everyone else says, try and give them their space, as much as you want to check in on them. Though it seems you are headed in the right direction! :)

I'm not sure I've added anything useful for you, but your story seems to match up to mine quite closely. Good luck!
 
#20 ·
It sure seems like there is just something they don't like about your hive. I really don't know the answer but can you try a different hive? One that is not cedar? Do you have a nuc or something you can make quickly out of pine and put them in instead? You could always use a nuc for a split or another swarm if they left it too. I would try that and if they left it too I would let them go. (I'm only on my second year so this is just an uneducated opinion.)
 
#23 ·
I'm grabbing at straws here, but could you put them back in the box with some feed and some pollen patties, and turn your sprinklers on for a few days they will think it's raining and maybe stay inside. or you could just leave them in the box you caught them in for tonight and go to the lumber yard tommorow and buy some pine boards.

Are your Top Bars Cedar too? Maybe they don't like to build comb on the cedar but dont mind the box being cedar and that is why other people get away with it?
 
#24 ·
Thanks for the suggestions. Well, I just put 10,000 of my closest friends back in their home. I could have sworn I heard a small crowd say, "Not AGAIN!" Everything is cedar. Maybe I'm as hard headed as they are but I dont think its the cedar. It's dried out and I cant even smell it anymore, the ants didnt mind it, and even soaking cedar oil around my door to keep the skeeters away doesnt last very long, plus there are too many cedar hives out there working great. Now..maybe THIS colony doesnt like it but who knows. Anyway, I rubbed two drops of lemongrass oil on one of the back bars, filled the feeder jar, and closed the hive. I like the idea of the pollen patties and queen excluder on the entrance so I'll do those when I get them in the mail Wednesday. It wouldnt be a big deal to leave it open, but I dont want them ending up in one of my neighbors' attic or wall. Maybe thats it...too many neighbors. Once I know the queen can't leave I'll open the entrance and see how they do. If they just dont do well I'll make the pine hive or set them free. Thanks again for helping on this drama. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong!!??!!
 
#25 ·
Haha, awww RacerX... Bummed to hear they left again!

I've got a couple questions for ya:
Did you close the hive up completely?
How long does your feeder last? Or how long has it been lasting rather.
You mentioned there was comb left behind... Did you mean they built comb in the cedar hive you have, and THEN left to go hangout in the tree?!
And how did you transfer them from cardboard box to the hive this last time?

I want to hear this story become a success! :)

Don't peek in on them!
 
#26 ·
I had a new colony abscond on me last year after building some comb, I discovered it was because of 3 small shims of pressure treated lumber I was using in the hive, I could tell it was from the treated lumber because the bees would not go near it. I removed the shims, added untreated shims caught the swarm again and they have been satisfied with their new home.

There is definitely something about your hive that the bees do not like.
 
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