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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Ypsilanti, MI USA
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    Default Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    Hello,

    I am a somewhat new beekeeper (yet to have my first successful over winter) using standard Langstroth hives. I am interested in trying a Warre hive but have to believe there is a simpler set of dimensions. If it is supposed to be the peoples hive that is easy to build, then measurements in 32th of an inch seems excessive. I suspect that is connected to a direct conversion from metric. Has anyone worked out a set of plans that use standard US measurements and lumber?

    Also I would likely need to populate a Warre hive I build from a swarm, has anyone tried using a single Warre box as a bait hive up in a tree and then when a swarm moved in move it to a hive stack on the ground?

    Thanks,
    Jerry

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Rock Port, MO. USA.
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    161

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    Here's a link that shows measurements in inches.
    http://www.warre.biobees.com/warre_h...s_imperial.pdf

    And here's a link that shows how to make a bait hive using a Warre hive box.
    http://yabeep.blogspot.com/2009/06/m...arre-hive.html

    Hope this helps.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Ypsilanti, MI USA
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    32

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    Yeah I saw the plans on the biobees site, however there has to be a way to simplify some of the measurements. I just don't know what dimensions are critical. For example the height of the boxes is listed as 8-9/32", couldn't it be made with a 1x10 which is actually 9-1/4" or about 1" taller. Would this make a difference? Why cut 31/32" from the height of each box? Also I'm not quite following the thickness of the top boards has to be 1/32" less than 3/8" and the space between them is 1/32" less than 1/2".
    Last edited by jtcweb; 05-10-2013 at 07:36 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
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    129

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    They sell metric rulers at home depot for 3 bucks. Save yourself the headache of conversion.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UT, USA
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    52

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    Quote Originally Posted by jtcweb View Post
    Yeah I saw the plans on the biobees site, however there has to be a way to simplify some of the measurements. I just don't know dimensions are critical. For example the height of the boxes is listed as 8-9/32", couldn't it be made with a 1x10 which is actually 9-1/4" or about 1" taller. Would this make a difference? Why cut 31/32" from the height of each box? Also I'm not quite following the thickness of the top boards has to be 1/32" less than 3/8" and the space between them is 1/32" less than 1/2".
    There are some folks out there who have reported using 1x10 (or 2x10) lumber, uncut in width as a way to make boxes and seem happy with them. I started down that road this year and so far, all seems fine. My first year boxes were a bit under size in internal dimensions, and the bees liked 'em just fine. I'm sure that just a bit over size will be fine too.

    210 mm is not some magic number (ask Delon...), and last time I checked the bees don't have miniature tool belts and tape measures to check internal dimensions of the boxes they inhabit. As long as you're close, Warre's ideas will still hold true.

    The only disadvantage of being slightly "off" in your size is that you may not be able to easily trade parts with a fellow beek. Around my neck of the woods, that's not really an issue b/c I think I'm the only one doing Warres.

    The top-bar spacing and width may me more important. I'm not sure about that. I *think* that has to do with comb thickness and bee space. I'd be more reticent to play much with that.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ypsilanti, MI USA
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    32

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    I think what is important is the bee space which I understand is (optimally) 3/8". These plans have just short of 1/2" between the bars which is a bit more than "bee space".

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,403

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    Bee space ranges between 1/4" and 3/8", 5/16" works just fine, and the worker bees can sometimes squeeze through a space that is slightly less than 1/4", but they will also, more readily, fill that space with propolis.

    For instance, if you're creating Top Bars, by themselves, or for frames, spacers (such as End Bars), that project 5/32" on each side of the Top Bars, will, when pushed together, produce a space of 5/16" between those Top Bars. In that case, 5/32" spacing, is necessary, if the 5/16" bee space is the objective.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Ypsilanti, MI USA
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    32

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    Then why are the bars in a Warre hive almost 1/2" apart?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Bartow,FL<USA
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    41

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    the issue is that the combs need to be apart 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 center to center as well . this may make a spaqce between top bars more than 3/8 if the top bars are 7/8 wide or smaller

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Rock Port, MO. USA.
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    161

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    Why don't you just use your Langstroth hive and manage it Warre style? Just don't add foundation in the frames. That way, you don't have to build anything new.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    Round the measurements to the nearest workable number i.e. 8 9/32" is 8 1/4" - 1/32" under a 1/2" is 1/2" Even with state of the art saws and craftsmanship getting hives within
    1/32" is near impossible. Nailing one side tighten then the other side will loose 1/32". Get it as close as you can the bees will love it. It's not really rocket science.
    Keep on keepin' bees

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ypsilanti, MI USA
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    32

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    I have been moving to foundation-less frames. I have some woodworking skills and the Warre looks like something I could build easily as I expand the number of hives I have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Why don't you just use your Langstroth hive and manage it Warre style? Just don't add foundation in the frames. That way, you don't have to build anything new.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Bartow,FL<USA
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    41

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Why don't you just use your Langstroth hive and manage it Warre style? Just don't add foundation in the frames. That way, you don't have to build anything new.
    His & my answer is " because I want to"

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Vernon, AZ. USA
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    Use 2 boxes on a stand for a lure. Put a Lang type inner cover in there. Forget the quilt. A sheet of ply at 48" makes nice boxes at 7& 7/8". Very close to orig. Metric. Been using Warre 5 years, make the inside 12",,bars12.75", by 1" wide. Champfer 7/16 ,,w 3/8 thick bars. Made so many, it's memorized. Good luck!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
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    227

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    I think that part of the warre way is the area of the box, so using taller lumber would have no effect. Also the height would not make a box incompatible with standard warre boxes. I'll convert my plans to normal English dimensions and post them, but can't do it till Wednesday. I don't use frames, so I don't have any real idea about making them cheap and easy. If someone has a system for frames let me know and I'll put that in the plans too.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Ypsilanti, MI USA
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    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    This may sound like a dumb question but was France using the metric system in the days of Warre? If not does anyone have the original inch dimensions?

    Also has anyone considered making comb guide board like the Perone hive and just put it between the Warre boxes? Then you would just make a box without cutting the rabbit. Also you could flip the box over and cut the comb from the sidewall of the box and lift the box off leaving the comb sitting there.

    P.S. While I feel the metric system is superior, I live in an inch/foot country and that's how I have to buy all my materials.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
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    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    The metric system was introduced by France in 1799, so yes, the original plans were Metric as well.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Ypsilanti, MI USA
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    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    Wow I never realized the metric system has been in use that long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenzero View Post
    The metric system was introduced by France in 1799, so yes, the original plans were Metric as well.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Dawn, MO 64638
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    What does Champfer 7/16 ,,w 3/8 thick bars mean?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Seattle, WA, USA
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    52

    Default Re: Simplified Inch Dimensions & Using As Bait Hive

    If you actually read Beekeeping For All (find the Heaf translation), you'll find out why you cannot omit the quilt or simply (attempt to) run Langstroth boxes as Warré hives.

    And if you ever hope to trade in Warré hive equipment you'd better stick to the metric dimensions.

    Half an inch gap between top bars is too wide; better study up.

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