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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Huron, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    5

    Default Carniolan/Italian Hyrbid Help

    I live in the northern parts of Ohio, where the Winters are harsh. Clearly my best bet is to start a Carniolan hive within the next week or two, right? Unfortunately the only seller in my area only has Italian bees, as they've sold out of Carnolians. I'm trying to start a Carnolian hive, not an Italian. Not that there's anything wrong with Italians, it's just that they aren't as hardy as Carniolan's in the Winter. My seller does however have a few Carniolan queens left. So I figure I could introduce a Carnolian queen to an Italian hive. What would be the outcome if I do? Could I create a hybrid of Carniolan/Italians for the winter? Is this worth it? Would I even notice a difference if I go this route? I'm a new beekeeper and any information would be helpful.
    P.S. I don't have much time to decide, as the shipment of Italians is coming in within the next week or two.
    P.S.S. I already checked the forums a bit and I couldn't find anything related to my predicament. If there is another thread related to this, just direct me there.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Hartford, CT
    Posts
    607

    Default Re: Carniolan/Italian Hyrbid Help

    No u would end up with a 100% Carn provided the Carn queen u get is mated and not a virgin.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Sacramento,California,USA
    Posts
    3,675

    Default Re: Carniolan/Italian Hyrbid Help

    All the bees in the hive are offspring from the queen, so if you replace an Italian queen with a Carni queen, all the future bees from the new queen will be Carni. Bees life span is only 5 or 6 weeks, so within 6 weeks you'll see all the bees in the hive will have changed over to Carniolan.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,732

    Default Re: Carniolan/Italian Hyrbid Help

    Yes, the above posts are correct.
    But that is what you want, right.
    All Carniolan is good for your harsh winter including the worker bees.
    My experience and outcome might not be the same as yours. I tried to introduce an Italian queen into a Carni hive. They killed her the next week. Then I tried to introduce a Carniolan queen into an Italian hive. They also killed her one week later dragging her dead body right in front of me when I was observing the hive activity.
    Bottom line is the Italian worker bees are not that acceptable of other queens. Maybe these are the nurse bees so they are more
    willing to accept a new Carni queen. You can definitely try and give us an update on your progress.
    You can try to create a hybrid also but have to evaluate the queen first. That will take some time to do. And the only way to tell is when they overwintered well.

    1st pic, a big fat juicy virgin Carni-80%/Italian-20% hybrid: She's a lot darker now.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Knox, Pa. USA
    Posts
    1,265

    Default Re: Carniolan/Italian Hyrbid Help

    The cold hard reality is that you are most likely getting a hybrid queen with carniolan traits or appearance, a pure queen is next to imposable. Even if someone imported a virgin carniolan from her native land where there were no other breeds of bees for hundreds of miles. When she got here and was bread she would carry the genetics of every species of drone residing within a two mile radius, be they kept of wild. As the queen would visit a breeding area where all the guys, of every race hang out. She would then breed with several of them diversifying the genetic pool of her hive.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Huron, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Carniolan/Italian Hyrbid Help

    Basically what you all are saying is if I take an Italian Hive and breed them with a Carni queen, I'll end up with a Carni Hive within 5-6 weeks, which is ideal. The negative behind this being that the Italian's might not accept her and kill her, killing the hive. I think I'm gonna take the risk and buy the Carni queen, and I'll try to post pics showing what happens. The Italians are already ordered and will be here within 2-3 days of the 17th according to the seller, so I have some leeway time to plan ahead.
    Another problem here being I don't know if the Carni queen is a virgin or not. If the Carni queen is a virgin and mates with the Italians, it'll still be an Italian hive if I'm not mistaken?

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