Results 1 to 19 of 19

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,651

    Default Nitrous oxide and virgin introduction... just curious.

    After reading about the use of ammonium nitrate in smokers I was wondering if the 8 oz. Nitrous Oxide cartridges could be used for virgin introduction. One would avoid the toxins created if the ammonium nitrate burns at too high a temperature.

    Ammonium nitrate use is common enough in Europe that bee suppliers sell small packets of it.

    I could imagine giving the bees a little whiff of laughing gas from a whipped cream dispenser but I'm not sure that I would want to knock them out completely.

    There is some info on the use of co2 and queen insemination but I haven't seen much on the use of Nitrous Oxide. 8 ounces of pure gas sure sounds safer to work with. Perhaps one of our resident chemists can tell me how much Nitrous Oxide is given off from approximately one teaspoon of ammonium nitrate.

    Just curious...
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,839

    Default Re: Nitrous oxide and virgin introduction... just curious.

    I am just as curious as you are. Is that the fertilizer use for greening the lawn?
    Not knowing the specific property I would rather use the traditional way of removing
    the old queen follow by a quick virgin queen intro. Works every time in a 3 frame nuc box.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    458

    Default Re: Nitrous oxide and virgin introduction... just curious.

    There are at least three gases that are formed when ammonium nitrate burns: NO2 (nitrogen dioxide), NO (nitrogen oxide) and N2O (nitrous oxide). The last is 'laughing gas.' Since the first two are somewhat corrosive, I suspect that the purpose of burning ammonium nitrate is to make nitrous oxide. The amounts of these gases that are formed depend on the precise conditions (temperature, oxygen amount, moisture) inside the smoker, so it's not possible to nail down the exact amount of nitrous that would be produced from a fixed amount of ammonium nitrate. Hotter, more moisture and more oxygen would lead to higher amounts of the first two gases. But, they will always be there no matter what the conditions. chucking reality aside, and assuming that only nitrous oxide is formed, if one teaspoon of ammonium nitrate has a mass of 10 g, then:

    10 g (1 tsp) ammonium nitrate produces up to 10.4 g (11 L) of pure nitrous oxide. A canister contains about 8 grams of the same gas, the same as 8.5 L once opened up and no longer under pressure.

    If it is nitrous oxide that does the trick, then the canisters would be a safer way to deliver it (no corrosives).

    Pete

    I speak chemistry, am learning to speak bee.
    Pete. New 2013, 7 hives, zone 6a
    To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,651

    Default Re: Nitrous oxide and virgin introduction... just curious.

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    I would rather use the traditional way of removing
    the old queen follow by a quick virgin queen intro. Works every time in a 3 frame nuc box.
    "Works every time " really?

    The best acceptance rate reported by some forum members is about 70%.

    And according to L. E. Snelgrove, "The least favorable time for the introduction of a virgin queen is immediately after the removal a fertile queen..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Chemguy View Post

    If it is nitrous oxide that does the trick, then the canisters would be a safer way to deliver it (no corrosives).

    Pete

    I speak chemistry, am learning to speak bee.
    Thanks Chemguy,

    If I was to experiment at all, I believe that the nitrous oxide cartridges would be my choice.
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: Nitrous oxide and virgin introduction... just curious.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCurious View Post
    "Works every time " really?

    The best acceptance rate reported by some forum members is about 70%.

    And according to L. E. Snelgrove, "The least favorable time for the introduction of a virgin queen is immediately after the removal a fertile queen..."
    .
    All the major queen guys do it the same. laying queen out, at least 3 hour wait (most go overnight) then new queen cell in. acceptance probably real close to 99% praticed over thousands of queen boxes.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
    Posts
    2,022

    Default Re: Nitrous oxide and virgin introduction... just curious.

    Whippets for bees?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,651

    Default Re: Nitrous oxide and virgin introduction... just curious.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    All the major queen guys do it the same. laying queen out, at least 3 hour wait (most go overnight) then new queen cell in. acceptance probably real close to 99% praticed over thousands of queen boxes.
    "new queen cell in"

    The topic is the introduction of virgins...
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Chardon, Ohio
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: Nitrous oxide and virgin introduction... just curious.

    Chemguy said: 10 g (1 tsp) ammonium nitrate produces up to 10.4 g (11 L) of pure nitrous oxide. A canister contains about 8 grams of the same gas, the same as 8.5 L once opened up and no longer under pressure.

    Hate to nitpick but N2O has a molecular weight of 44 g/M. Thus 10.4 g is about 1/4 mole. 1/4 of a mole has a gas volume of about 5 L.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads