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  1. #1
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    Default A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    http://gallery.mailchimp.com/5fd2b1a...ng2013_opt.pdf


    Real common sense reply to Dan Blathers reports.........

  2. #2
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    That was an excellent piece-- I found it on his website.

    This may not have been his intention, but it confirmed my intent to try to avoid treatments. From the article:

    It is worrisome that varroa levels appear to be steadily climbing year after year.
    And if the drought and forage problems weren’t enough, the favored miticide of commercial beekeepers became unavailable for a time last summer, and mite levels built to killing levels in a number of operations. By late July, some of us were already predicting a disaster for the upcoming almond pollination season. Although
    many beekeepers finally got mite levels down with late‐season treatments, the damage had already been done, and there was no turning the colonies around. Strike three for the bees!
    To me this illustrates the difficulties associated with depending on pesticide manufacturers for the success of your hives. I'm just not sure this is a sustainable practice, long-term.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    That was an excellent piece-- I found it on his website.

    This may not have been his intention, but it confirmed my intent to try to avoid treatments. From the article:



    To me this illustrates the difficulties associated with depending on pesticide manufacturers for the success of your hives. I'm just not sure this is a sustainable practice, long-term.
    ...and I think we are actually in pretty close agreement on this one Ray as long as you accept the fact that there are a myriad of mite control strategies employed by beekeepers. It may well be that those who chose to treat less and with less toxic treatments may be faring the best. I have long been an advocate of an ipm program of annual brood breaks and minimal well timed treatments.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  4. #4
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    ...and I think we are actually in pretty close agreement on this one Ray as long as you accept the fact that there are a myriad of mite control strategies employed by beekeepers.
    Well, it's a fact, so I'd better accept it.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    Well, it's a fact, so I'd better accept it.
    Atta boy Ray. And yes it is a fact. Some of the mite control programs I have had related to me are down right scary. A recent testing program of chemical residues in hives from nearly 200 commercial beekeepers in South Dakota confirmed this as well. Fwiw no mite treatment residues were found in samples taken from our hives.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  6. #6
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    ...and I think we are actually in pretty close agreement on this one Ray as long as you accept the fact that there are a myriad of mite control strategies employed by beekeepers. It may well be that those who chose to treat less and with less toxic treatments may be faring the best. I have long been an advocate of an ipm program of annual brood breaks and minimal well timed treatments.
    The national bee survey seems to crush this theory though... from whatI have seen of those reults, no one seems to be ahead of the game meds, or natural methods.....

  7. #7
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    I know it's not Randy Oliver but thought this was a good post from Dan Cummings of Project Apis m. - http://projectapism.org/content/view/93/49/

  8. #8
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    The national bee survey seems to crush this theory though... from whatI have seen of those reults, no one seems to be ahead of the game meds, or natural methods.....
    Maybe someone could explain to me why I should put any faith in National Surveys. I don't keep records of the things I was asked. I always say to the folks who call me that I will answer their questions as long as they understand that I am lying to them because I don't know w/ any accuracy.

    So how many other beekeepers are in the same boat w/ me. The not really sure boat? A lot I bet.

    How good could these surveys be?
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  9. #9
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    Only read as far as "An unexpected chill."

    Randy didn't mention those beekeepers who ship bees from the East directly into the groves and not into staging yds. Maybe this isn't as usual as I thought. Beekeepers w/ bees overwintering in SC do that.

    I also wonder about winterloss/dieback in nonmigratory operations and migratory operations that don't send bees to Almonds.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  10. #10
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    One thing I am having a probleme with is the "Reporting a Pesticide Kill" The question is how do I do it.

    I go to hive its strong, 3 weeks later its gone, no dead bees just an empty bee box, so is this a pesticide kill?

    (And before you think PPB, all good practices were followed.)

    I have had dead bees on the ground from agrimek before and know what that loks like, but thisd past season I cant' find the dead bees, so how do I prove or disprove pesticide kill?
    Larry Pender,Jubilee HoneyBee Company,Camarillo, CA

  11. #11
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Maybe someone could explain to me why I should put any faith in National Surveys. I don't keep records of the things I was asked. I always say to the folks who call me that I will answer their questions as long as they understand that I am lying to them because I don't know w/ any accuracy.

    So how many other beekeepers are in the same boat w/ me. The not really sure boat? A lot I bet.

    How good could these surveys be?
    You may be right.... it may not be pertinant.. My though was that a survey that included a lot of data sets may be accurate... but then again those in the survey may not be doing it correctly....

  12. #12
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by rniles View Post
    I know it's not Randy Oliver but thought this was a good post from Dan Cummings of Project Apis m. - http://projectapism.org/content/view/93/49/
    No worries on my part, Yes Dan writes well also. and gives a lot of good information.! thanks for the link!

  13. #13
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSPender View Post
    One thing I am having a probleme with is the "Reporting a Pesticide Kill" The question is how do I do it.

    I go to hive its strong, 3 weeks later its gone, no dead bees just an empty bee box, so is this a pesticide kill?

    (And before you think PPB, all good practices were followed.)

    I have had dead bees on the ground from agrimek before and know what that loks like, but thisd past season I cant' find the dead bees, so how do I prove or disprove pesticide kill?
    You cannot; and therefore you should not report it as a pesticide kill.

    Off the top of my head I cannot think of a pesticide that would leave no dead bees in the hive; but what's important is without dead bees you can't prove for instance that they haven't just absconded (however unlikely you think that is).
    Beeless since 2012; coming back in 2014. Suffering from apicultural withdrawal!

  14. #14
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by melliferal View Post
    Off the top of my head I cannot think of a pesticide that would leave no dead bees in the hive; but what's important is without dead bees you can't prove for instance that they haven't just absconded (however unlikely you think that is).
    one way is to test the pollen and bee bread for pesticides, expensive and time consuming but if there are pesticides, that's where you will find it.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  15. #15
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    I agree. I wonder if that's the kind of thing you ask your local ag extension to help with. I'm assuming they're the ones that would have all the product samples to compare results to.
    Beeless since 2012; coming back in 2014. Suffering from apicultural withdrawal!

  16. #16
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSPender View Post
    One thing I am having a probleme with is the "Reporting a Pesticide Kill" The question is how do I do it.
    This sort of thing should be reported to and discussed with your State Apiarist. Ask your State Apiarist.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  17. #17
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    Default Re: A must read for those interested in real hands on facts.

    Maybe somebody else just wanted those bees more than you....

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