Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 116
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,465

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    I have gotten some good ones, but predominantly I find that there are a lot of low quality nucs out there.
    But not any low quality packages, eh?

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,465

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    I guess we should all stop selling packages and everybody can vie for the limited number of nucs available and we can see what demand does to nuc prices? Will the US bee industry survive when a nuc costs $450.00, $600,00 $1000,00?
    Nope, sell all the packages you want. They have their place. But I'll be teaching folks how to raise their own bees and keep their hives full, without buying anything except queens...and those from local queen producers...support your local queen producers.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,465

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    Now take somebody like Mike Palmer who makes up hundreds of split per year and uses them to replenish his dead outs. He can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he uses a similar system as Kirk Webster where nucs are inspected in early winter and if they are too weak to make it through they are "blown out". So if he were to fill out a survival survey his success rate would be slanting the numbers because he eliminates the failures before they even get a chance to try and winter. Where as somebody with less experience can't look at their hive and say it isn't going to make it through, so they attempt to winter it anyway and it adds to their deadout rate.
    Well then, I guess I'll have to correct you because you're wrong. I've never blown out a nuc in the early winter or at any other time. I manage my nucs so they will have a good queen and a good cluster. If I don't like the queen I change her. If I don't like the progress of the cluster, I add more brood. All in all, I lose less then 10% of my nucs between setup and spring.

    Nope, I've moved away from much of what Kirk does, as it doesn't fit my management. I got rid of the bags, I'm getting rid of the division board feeders, and I expand my nucs up onto 4 additional combs...not horizontally like Kirk does. We both winter nucleus colonies as the support of our operations, but it ends there.

    Of course there's the nuc yard that crashed in 2011-2012 winter....50% loss. Totally attributed to, by microscopic inspection, nosema picked up from the neighboring beekeeper with Georgia packages that were so sick they crashed in late summer, were robbed out by my bees, and there you have it.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,465

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    Yes, in an ideal world all clubs would be self-sustaining and not a single package would need to be imported. However, our current local reality is FAR from this ideal. We have five relatively large clubs in our area and we can't even scratch the surface of meeting the demand for locally produced nucs.
    No doubt. But don't you understand that if your five relatively large clubs would put on a program to teach the people to raise their own nucleus colonies, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    "Each one teach one."

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,465

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    Yes, I have consider the MP prescription. I'm at a size where I can sell all of the honey I can produce locally, most at retail prices. I overwinter nucs - not as successfully as MP does , but again, an overwintered nuc is perfectly positioned to make a huge spring crop, which is one of MP's stated advantages. It would be economic folly to sell this in March, April, or May in VA. We had a good spring last year, and several of my overwintered 5-frame nucs that had 3 med supers, and a couple had 5 supers. We sell everything we make for no less than $10/lb. Do the math, there is NO way you can compete selling nucs. If I ever need to sell honey at a much lower price, then making nucs may become economically viable.
    Yes, true. But have you ever considered holding on to some of your wintered nucleus colonies, and using them as brood factories to produce more nucleus colonies? Allow your production colonies to produce and use your brood factories to produce the nucs.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,465

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    no offense intended carla, Send me your number, I probably have about 300 people I will have call you....

    Get good at it and you will be very wealthy.... over 800k packages sold every year, surely your club can handle that!

    So tell me, how many did you produce?? with normal die off at 30%you need to make roughly 1.3 times as many nucs as you have hives every year.....
    Don't be snide please. Teach those 300 beekeepers to raise their own bees and they will be calling you with messages of thanks. But they won't be handing you checks for packages anymore.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,465

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    For this overwintered nuc, assuming $125 per 5-frame nuc, I'd have to sell 11 nucs from this same colony to get this return. In our area, I could probably split 3 or 4 times if I aggressively fed.
    You're not listening Astro. You save some of your wintered nucs to make more nucs...5-10 to 1 depending on the year.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,465

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    Not the math he was refering to I belive..... you can't make enough nucs.... sure you can make money at them.... Thats not an issue. you made 16 nucs, if I split everything I had I could only make 200,
    That would take me back to almost nothing, and only make me 20k, I grossed a bit over 50 on honey last year....
    But if he saved those nucs to make nucs he could make probably 150 nucs. Then he could sell 134 nucs and keep 16 to make more the following year. Then you could have your cake and eat it too...

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,465

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    Just quit badmouthing packages. pound for pound a package outproduces nucs, and cost about 1/2 and are avalible at least a month earlier than a nuc. so I can start packages and have a full DEEP before the nucs are ready. Just finished putting 2nd deeps on 40 packages I started March 28th. the nucs started the same day are just now ready, and only 1/2 at that........
    You're comparing packages to spring splits. I'm comparing packages to wintered nucs. My nucs need their second deep and have 7 frames of brood three weeks after our first 60 degree day and the first pollen of the year.

    And here packages cost $100 and nucs $130. That's half??

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,465

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    If you want the best and earliest buy a package and requeen it with a queen from your local stock! those workers will all die off soon enough and you should then have the perfect hive......
    I don't see it that way, and as you say the point is to get the truth out. Start nucs on your main flow, whenever that is, use those local queens that are available at the height of the season when the conditions are best, and winter them. Then you'll have the best and the earliest.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,465

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Now I'm done. Say what you will. Buy all the packages you want, I really don't care. But for those who are tired of replacing their dead bees every year with packages, listen up. You can raise better bees than you can buy....I don't care in what form you buy them.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,452

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Aww come on Mike you were on a roll. If it were a fight they would of stopped it about 3 posts ago.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Wayensboro, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    147

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Hey Mike sign me up, I have rode that package buying treadmill for way to long and the only one to come out ahead is the man selling the packages every year. I am into only my 2nd year of wintering nucs, and producing queens of my own stock, I don't have a stack of stats to share with you but I can say that my package dealer has not seen me for 2 years now and if things continue in the direction they are heading in now he has seen the last of my money. That money is now used to buy more boxes and frames for all the bees I now have.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Madison County, Alabama
    Posts
    487

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    Say what you will. ...for those who are tired of replacing their dead bees every year with packages, listen up. You can raise better bees than you can buy.
    As true as north is north. The truth will set those guys free, ...maybe... ...maybe not.

    Reminds me of the 1972 film, Poseidon Adventure, when Gene Hackman leads his group of survivors "up" toward the capsized hull of the ship, and passes the other group of survivors convinced that salvation lies in heading "down," Gene begs for them to save themselves but they ignore him, and keep heading down, convinced their package bees are the way to go, ...er I mean convinced that Reverend Frank Scott and his survivors are doomed.
    "...the most populous colonies ...are provided by queens ...in the year following their birth." Brother Adam

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    new castle delaware usa
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    My first bees were a package, given to me as a gift. The next year they swarmed, I caught them,had 2 hives then. I took 6 nuc boxes put a frame of brood and a frame of food in each from the other two. All made Queens and all mated,then I had 8. I was putting them in full sized med boxes,end of season I pinched the weak Queens and combined to winter
    . Then I found this site and saw that nucs can be overwintered. So I tried 3 to see if it was possible. 1 in a stand alone 2 box stacked med,and the other two in a 10 frame divided med, it worked. This last year I OW ed 11. March 28 one swarmed I checked the rest and had an average of 7 frames of solid brood in all of em.My mistake was selling them, I sold 4 frames of brood 1 of food. The rest of the brood left over made Q cells and all have Queens now, should see eggs 5/14. I wanted to put grafts in them instead of E Queens. Next yr I`ll keep half for factory. Thanx Mike.( I had the folding frame at EAS that you saw ) Never bought a bee and never will, but the one package did me well! N3SKI

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia, MS, USA
    Posts
    632

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Since I live in MS and raise queens it bothers me a little to hear people bash southern bees. The problem is not exactly the bees. The problem is the genetics of the bees. Southern package producers need bees that will brood up heavy and early when fed, usually thats Italian, maybe even Cordovan Italian. These bees are perfect for shaking packages from, but not for northern climate beekeeping. Most if not all the queens that accompany those packages are from the same stock.

    I produce VSH Carni queens from stock Adam Finkelstein selects in Maryland. Although the are produced in MS, they were selected for northern requirements. The package producers can do the same. If everyone told them I want Carni queens in my packages they could easily import breeders from the north to supply the correct queens for the north.

    If the demand is there someone will supply it.

    Just my take on the package problem.

    Johnny
    "Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Binghamton,New York ,us
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    My advice for package customers is to get the packages if you need them but if you are in a northern climate replace the queen with a northern bred queen from a good reputable supplier. There is nothing wrong with southern queens for southern climates and during the summer up here most packages do very well and make great colonies until the winter time. Every beekeeper has a 10% percent rule,or something similar that no matter what you do making splits, raising queens, making nucs that 10% will fail. Southern queen breeders have the same problems we do so we can't expect everything they do will be perfect. Some queens are duds, it is a fact of life.
    I have told this to everyone I sold packages to this year as I want people to have realistic expectations and no suprises if they have losses.
    And this will be my first year attempting to overwinter nucs like Michael Palmer and I can't wait to see the results. Maybe he will answer some of my private message questions..lol

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia, MS, USA
    Posts
    632

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Davis View Post
    My advice for package customers is to get the packages if you need them but if you are in a northern climate replace the queen with a northern bred queen from a good reputable supplier.
    But why buy a queen you don't want. That will be an extra $20 to $30 expense. Why shouldn't the package producer put that nortern bred queen in the package to start with.

    Johnny
    "Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Madison County, Alabama
    Posts
    487

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Broke-T View Post
    Since I live in MS and raise queens it bothers me a little to hear people bash southern bees. The problem is not exactly the bees. The problem is the genetics of the bees.

    Southern package producers need bees that will brood up heavy and early when fed, usually thats Italian, maybe even Cordovan Italian. These bees are perfect for shaking packages from, but not for northern climate beekeeping. Most if not all the queens that accompany those packages are from the same stock.
    Johnny, I agree. I'm your next door neighbor in Alabama. Since moving to Alabama from Virginia, I've discovered Fred Rossman's queens have truly performed the best for me out of any stock in my beeyards here. But pls understand that the real valid message is not against Southern queens as much as it is PRO local queens. I believe my northern queen stock (non-local) has not performed as effectively as my southern stock, because, for me, southern is "local."

    Also, I believe a lot of bad queens sold from package producers in Georgia have a genetic connection to stressed stock exposed to pesticides/fungicides while on pollination contracts in California, for example. I believe this is the main reason we're seeing so many package failures. Not every package fails, of course, but the grassroots data and experience is showing a trend that packages are collapsing in endemic proportions. This is not to demonize packages and producers, but rather a call to examine the root causes why they are failing and resolve the problem.
    "...the most populous colonies ...are provided by queens ...in the year following their birth." Brother Adam

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia, MS, USA
    Posts
    632

    Default Re: quality of 2013 package queens from GA/AL?

    But it is so easy to change your genetics. All it takes is order the breeders you need and in 2 weeks your grafting from her and changed your genetics by 50%. To change out your drones for the other 50% takes a cpl years.

    Johnny
    "Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads