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  1. #101
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    St. Albans, Vermont
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    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    See! It is already useful! I feel uncomfortable discussing Mr. Palmer behind his back. I really respect his efforts to keep bees healthy. If he wanted to comment on it - it would be beneficial to many.
    Just what am I supposed to say? Neonics scare the crap out of me? They do.

    All this talk about me...all I did is reply to BBM who said all the bees in the US are dying from Neonics. He has it all figured out right down to how many colonies per mile are crashing. While I can't comment on all the other beekeepers' bees I can about mine.

    I practice GBB...Good Basic Beekeeping. I raise my own stocks, and queens from good colonies. I try to keep the varroa load down. I keep bees in an area where nectar and pollen flows are numerous and long lasting.

    I diagnose every dead colony...and this winter is no different that any other. The majority of losses were from varroa. There were a handful of queenless and drone layer colonies, and two colonies in the operation starved. I've replaced all the readouts with nucleus colonies I made last summer. The weak colonies and failing queens are boosted and re-queened with nucleus colonies I made last summer. And are all my apiaries and all my bees perfect? No, they aren't. It's still a struggle to keep them going. There are still losses and frustrations.

    Other than what I've said above, what do you want from me? My life's work has been all about learning how to keep healthy and productive bees. Do you honestly think I could teach you everything I know and do...in BeeSource posts?

    So when I ask someone like BBM to explain his dogma, and all I get is a shrug of shoulders....I gotta get back to work.

  2. #102
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    MP stated that he has a colony loss of 10% when average is 30% and more.
    Does anyone know where this 30% loss number comes from? USDA Survey? AIA Data? What's the breakdown of the data? How many of the 30% losses come from diseases (AFB, EFB, etc.), starvation, or other causes? Are any of these losses directly attributable to neonicetinoid pesticides?

    W/ commercial beekeepers declining in numbers and handling more and more colonies one of them lossing 50% of their colonies for whatever reason would really effect the data, wouldn't it? And w/ how things are reported in the News Media the general public might assume these losses are all because of pesticides, when they aren't.

    When it comes to Winterloss I look forward to some loss. Were I to have zero Winterloss I would have other opportunities or problems. Depending on your point of view.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  3. #103
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    Sep 2011
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    Reno, NV
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    2,835

    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    What we will see is once again you attack a country you know nothing about and as you put it, is very far away. I don't know about the person you quote, I do know there are bleading fools on every contintent, and i know that the Aussie beeks who post here say your not even close on your facts... I tend to belive them.......
    I am wondering what the President of the Australian Crop Pollinators Association, as well as the others quoted that live in Australia would know about Australia and how they keep bees. Since it is the comments of them that are being presented here.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  4. #104
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    Sep 2011
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    Reno, NV
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    2,835

    Default Re: The austrlian distraction

    Quote Originally Posted by jonathan View Post
    The fact that Australia has no varroa,
    Recently I have seen at least one comment that indicates this is no longer true. Bees imported to Canada from Australia have been found to have Varroa mites.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Lee\'s Summit, MO
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    1,284

    Default Re: The austrlian distraction

    A post is a post. Anyone can make a claim. Do you have a responsible news report that reports this?
    Ninja, is not in the dictionary. Well played Ninja's, well played...

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
    Posts
    740

    Default Re: The austrlian distraction

    I found no mention on the internet that bees imported to Canada from Australia arrived in Canada already infested with varroa mites.

    The article linked below was published May 13, 2013 in Perth, and reports that Australian bees are currently still free of varroa mites, i.e. " . . . West Australia's biosecure bees, which are free of exotic diseases."

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/local/wa/a/...adians-a-buzz/

    The closest mention on the internet I found of varroa mites and Australia is the following article from November, 2012, about bees with varroa being found on boat docked in a Sydney, Austraila, harbor, but the bees were prevented from ever actually going ashore. Apparently, it was a wild swarm that had alighted in the ship's cargo hoist crane structure while the ship was in Singapore waters and then traveled to Austraila on the ship. " none of the bee or the varroa destructor mites escaped" I think means the swarm was exterminated on the ship. A close call for Australia's bees for sure.

    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2012/s3639182.htm

    I would pressume, though, that it is just a matter of time before Australia's bees get varroa mites.
    Last edited by shinbone; 05-16-2013 at 08:30 AM.
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 14 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

  7. #107
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    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: The austrlian distraction

    Quote Originally Posted by shinbone View Post
    I would pressume, though, that it is just a matter of time before Australia's bees get varroa mites.
    I fully agree. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy but a little incident like this that's missed is all it takes.
    Ninja, is not in the dictionary. Well played Ninja's, well played...

  8. #108
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    Dec 2009
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    Crystal Water, Queensland, Australia
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    897

    Default Re: The austrlian distraction

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Recently I have seen at least one comment that indicates this is no longer true. Bees imported to Canada from Australia have been found to have Varroa mites.
    Varroa in bees from Australia? I'm in shock. The district Bee inspector is a friend and he has not told me - could you please inform me where this information comes from, Daniel. Many thanks

  9. #109
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    Dec 2009
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    Crystal Water, Queensland, Australia
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    897

    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I am wondering what the President of the Australian Crop Pollinators Association, as well as the others quoted that live in Australia would know about Australia and how they keep bees. Since it is the comments of them that are being presented here.
    I have a letter in front of me from the Minister of Agriculture in my state and correctly states that " most beekeepers are keeping their bees in native forests and State Forests..where there is minimal exposure to chemicals"

    I'm still waiting for a response from the Federal Minister.

  10. #110
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    Oct 2011
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    Santa Monica, CA, USA
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    1,464

    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    ...I practice GBB...Good Basic Beekeeping. I raise my own stocks, and queens from good colonies. I try to keep the varroa load down. I keep bees in an area where nectar and pollen flows are numerous and long lasting. ...
    Michael, many thanks for respond. Your success is remarkable and is a lesson to other commercial beekeepers. You stated that you have "pre-varroa" loses, which is very interesting because many at beesource attributed their loses to varroa (using this argument against neonics). Thus, if your loses are not effected by varroa (pre-varroa level) than this argument should work in exact the same way as anti-neonics argument (that you have no loses neonics related). So, based on your experience, apparently, two opposite conclusions are dismissed: (1) neonics involved in high winterloss; (2) varroa caused the high winterloses.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  11. #111
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    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by max2 View Post
    I have a letter in front of me from the Minister of Agriculture in my state ...
    Is it possible to post the copy here? Would be useful.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  12. #112
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    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Does anyone know where this 30% loss number comes from? USDA Survey? AIA Data? What's the breakdown of the data? ...
    Mark, as you suggested to me to search internet for Mr. Palmers published work, the same way I would suggest to you to search internet for winterloss data - there are plenty of data! 30% is very minimal estimate. See, how it works? If Mr.Palmer has 10%, in order to have 30% average, some folks should have 50% loss - to balance Mr.Palmers outstanding result. Could you tell us your loses?
    Серёжа, Sergey

  13. #113
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    Crystal Water, Queensland, Australia
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    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    It is a hard copy and I have no idea how to scan...

  14. #114
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    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Does anyone know where this 30% loss number comes from? USDA Survey? AIA Data? ...
    Jim Belli, president of the Illinois State Beekeepers Association, who has 16 colonies at the Mill Creek Nursery he owns in Wadsworth, said he experienced losses of 30 percdent to 40 percent; there are 60,000 bees in a colony during the height of summer activity.

    “They do a voluntary bee survey every year, and the preliminary results show 30 to 40 percent of the bee population died,” he said. “That’s a lot of bees across the nation.” http://posttrib.suntimes.com/photos/...but-sweet.html

    This is from article with Barry, the Moderator. He did not object.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  15. #115
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    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by max2 View Post
    It is a hard copy and I have no idea how to scan...
    Well, I think, you are living in different universe ... paper letters (not E-mail) ... my daughters (and wife) use iPhone for everything including taking picture of anything and sending them anywhere... is it common in Australia to see 10 out of 10 people typing on their iPhones simultaneously in any place,any time of the day/night? I saw it in Mero in Russia and it is common in US. I have to admit that I do not have iPhone or similar. I have old cell-phone, which I do not use so often

    My suggestion would be to find somebody with iPhone.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  16. #116
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    Could you tell us your loses?
    No, I didn't count my losses.

    You and a number of other folks have used the 30% loss statement. My question was "Where did it come from?" Is it something you heard on the TV News?

    I will do a WebSearch, I just thought maybe someone remembered where they got the number from.

    Isn't the 30% loss being used the number of colonies across the Nation that died fiscal year April 2012 through March 2013?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  17. #117
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    4,240

    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    Well there is this:
    http://www.abfnet.org/displaycommon....articlenbr=238
    Which pretty much shows winter hive losses where they have been in recent years with the exception of a noticeable improvement last year.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  18. #118
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    Dec 2006
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    St. Albans, Vermont
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    5,252

    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    Michael, You stated that you have "pre-varroa" loses, which is very interesting because many at beesource attributed their loses to varroa (using this argument against neonics).
    I did? Exactly what are "pre-varroa"losses?

  19. #119
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    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    You didn't. I did. Before the days of varroa what were your winterloss numbers like? 5 to 10%?

    Alright Sergey I looked at a cpl of the News Reports about losses. I still didn't see what I wanted. The breakdown of what parts of the 30% loss are attributable to what causes.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  20. #120
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    Default Re: The Australian Distraction Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    You didn't. I did. Before the days of varroa what were your winterloss numbers like? 5 to 10%?
    Sorry for confusion. My point was that 10% loses are comparable to the loses without (before) varroa.

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Alright Sergey I looked at a cpl of the News Reports about losses. I still didn't see what I wanted. The breakdown of what parts of the 30% loss are attributable to what causes.
    In the light of THIS discussion, it is easy: 10% natural loss, not from neonics, not from varroa; 20% - non-best beekeeping practice, which may include everything including varroa, chemicals, pollination (transportation), stress etc.
    Серёжа, Sergey

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