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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,299

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    Irwin, its understandable why the border was closed. There was a lot of over reaction going on down here when the T-mites first started showing up, then varroa. But eventually we all got the nasties, and learned to deal with them (mostly). Is there any point to keeping it closed now?

    >>Some growers behaved as if bees were like pizza's... just call and presto 2 days later there they are.<<

    Lol

  2. #42

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    I'm not Irwin, but I have been doing a little reading on this subject - ever since I read "Bad Beekeeping" by Miksa. Today's objections by Canadians seem to be based on a belief that SHB and AHB will follow an opening of the border. Highly unlikely, I would think.
    If the bugs are headed that way, I don't think an imaginary line (border) is going to stop them from entering Canada.
    Greg Whitehead, Ten Mile, TN
    Blog - http://gregsbees.blogspot.com/

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    249

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    I can see the border opening to package bees. As far as US beekeepers coming to Canada for polination contracts, most would find there is not a great demand here for that. If they are coming here for honey production, that is going to open a whole new problem for them when it comes to harvesting. Are they going to extract here or truck supers home? If they are going to extract here then foriegn ownership of property creates a new set of problems they would have to deal with or it may just create a new industry for beekeepers here who have the capacity in thier operation to extract on a commercial basis.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,840

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    how many America outfits can cross the boarder without leaving their entire staff behind because of immigration,
    Canadian crop sharing ops would start up everywhere, and the industry just turned the wrong direction, hmmmm
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    1,865

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    how many America outfits can cross the boarder without leaving their entire staff behind because of immigration,
    best point I have heard yet.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    omaha nebr. USA
    Posts
    494

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    Ok so queens & packages are in short supply to be put mildly speaking this year in the USA.
    So lets next year add in another poor summer, tough losses in the fall & winter & just for kicks lets add in a 7 to 10 day weather delay for queen mating problems & then we have what???
    American producers can sell every thing they can produce here in the states & then it's still a headache.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,299

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    In the past some Californians owned Canadian honey businesses, and shook packages here to stock the northern outfit. Workers from both countries would work both sides of the border doing almond pollination then shaking bees, then on to Canada.

    Opening the border to hive movement would be too disruptive on both sides so I doubt that will ever happen. but I wonder if there is a serious movement to get the border opened again to packages, or is there still too much opposition in Canada.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    1,865

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    Quote Originally Posted by loggermike View Post
    but I wonder if there is a serious movement to get the border opened again to packages, or is there still too much opposition in Canada.
    I say it must be a two way street, best queens I ever bought came from canada, but they no longer ship due to the cost and delays getting them down here.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
    Posts
    1,308

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    Opposition to border opening diminishes with an increase of winter losses. I think the math folks call that linear if you were to graph it. Of course there are those who want it open at any cost and those who want it closed, no matter the reasons. The debate is always very emotional. Livelihoods are at stake. The possibility of missing out on $2.00/lb honey is a motivator for opening the border. Access to packages at the last minute would make the industry a little more stable. It is pretty har to persuade a young fellow/gal to put $1,000,000.00 or$2,000,000.00 into an outfit if after a tough winter he loses 50% of the hives. He would pretty well be finished after 1 season. Access to bees would make turnover of outfits easier. Do not think they would be cheaper. Do not think the would be like they used to be. They will for sure be better than what we currently have access to.

    I think it is best to raise your own but that is so hard to do and expensive. The season on the prairies is very short and intense making it hard to do. On the short term it is expensive, on the long run it pays dividends but it takes a lot of determination to pull it off. It still does not help on these freakishly long wnters and half the outfit is dead. Or what about one of my nuc customers whose bees did not have a normal pollen flow in the late summer , fall period? The end result dead bees next spring, it appears as if those colonies did not make enough young bees going into winter on account of lack of pollen. Fortunately for him he put the order in and we are making them up.

    Jean-Marc

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,299

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    Those same conditions led to the same problems south of the border this winter, leading to a very real shortage of good hives for almonds, and now a huge demand for queens and bees . So there really isn't any surplus of bees for sale. It always comes back to supply and demand. Opening the border would surely lead to increased prices for bees.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    bridgewater , nova scotia
    Posts
    672

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    Hi, I am a newer beekeeper going into pollination rental next year , and since Nova Scotia has a border that won't even let in bees from within Canada it makes even more difficult to buy bees, If it wasn't for New Zealand and Australia being able to export packages to us in NS , most of the commercial Beekeeping would eventually cease if we had a bad year with losses from whatever killed them , we are not sustainable here . If the Nuc suppliers can't make their contracts for pollination due to winter losses then everyone that needs bees is SOL !
    I have purchased some package bees this year from Australia @ 254.00 + 7.50 freight for a 4 LB pack with 2 Queens each. and that is expensive , but what can we do about it !? I can't get them at home hardware or walmart.
    So in a way I am thankful for being able to get the packages , but it still is way too expensive , specially when some of them don't make it !

    So I am with opening the border to importing bees . It would really help out with the overpriced bees we have to get right now . plus the stock could be better too
    I think SHB is in Canada anyways , I heard it from our bee health inspector at a course i am currently taking .

    But since i am a newer beekeeper i guess i don't have much say in the matter, but i am a younger beekeeper and i think if the future of beekeeping is going to continue then someone needs to start listening to the younger generation .

    Ben
    Ben Little <The Little Bee Farm> https://www.facebook.com/TheLittleBeeFarm
    Nova Scotia Canada

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    757

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    "but I wonder if there is a serious movement to get the border opened again to packages, or is there still too much opposition in Canada. "

    It is a very serious movement To open the border to US package Bees.3 Motions were passed to today at a General special meeting of Mantoba beekeepers association.First motion asked that no bees on comb were to be allowed in, second and third motions were essentially asking the CFIA to pursue the opening of the border to US packages and the setting up of protocols to do this.Livilihoods and businesses are at stake after this disastrous winter.

    Alan Dick covers this whole topic very well at http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/topics.htm and this would apply to Manitoba, maybe on a little smaller count of colony numbers



    Beekeeping Economics in Alberta Since Border Closure

    Eastern Protectionism Costs Alberta Economy $25 Million Annually

    Stunted Growth

    The Decline of Beekeeping in Alberta

    Beekeeping in Alberta, 1970 to 2002

    The Truth About US Hive Numbers from 1989 to 2002. More

    Comment Reminder Page

    Letters to CFIA

    Nothing in this world is guaranteed except maybe change...... I would think this is progress in the right directon




    Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners, and necessity has made us allies. Those whom God has so joined together, let no man put asunder.

    John F. Kennedy

  13. #53
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    2,958

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    Quote Originally Posted by irwin harlton View Post
    Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners, and necessity has made us allies. Those whom God has so joined together, let no man put asunder.

    John F. Kennedy
    JFK was a very quotable man......
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fruitland ,Idaho
    Posts
    419

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    It is a very serious movement To open the border to US package Bees.3 Motions were passed to today at a General special meeting of Mantoba beekeepers association.First motion asked that no bees on comb were to be allowed in, second and third motions were essentially asking the CFIA to pursue the opening of the border to US packages and the setting up of protocols to do this.Livilihoods and businesses are at stake after this disastrous winter.

    Probably to little to late for this season, but might help for next year. How bad of are the losses or is it to early to tell?

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,840

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    producers just an hour north of me got over a foot of snow a few days back, . . . I hope the back of winter is broken this next week, as temps are to rise to normals again. Over the last few weeks, these cold nights have taken its toll,
    Winter loss reports are all over the map,

    this spring has brought many producers onto the same page, finally
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,840

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Little View Post
    but i am a younger beekeeper and i think if the future of beekeeping is going to continue then someone needs to start listening to the younger generation .

    Ben
    cheers to that Ben, well said
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
    Posts
    1,306

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    Very interesting subject.

    As someone who continues to get calls everyday (from especially the Midwest)where folks are still looking for packages in May 2013 the addition of an additional market is only going to bump up the price of bees and queens up.Fine by me.

    If the price of bee movement across the border includes "off comb only" and the policy is bilateral where its open for bee flow both ways it is my opinion that those who invest in bulk cages in the next few days will most likely to be the ones who will reap the greatest reward (in the coming years). Shaking bees across the middle of the prairies in September is my idea of beekeepers hell.

    If that's the new normal guess its time to buy Long Johns, a bigger trailer, and get prepared to meet the devil in Canada.

    Help me out all you Canuks.....I need to get prepared......... Is it true that the only legal colour for hive tools in Canada is Red or White?

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
    Posts
    1,308

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    Actually it is currently open for bees going south from here to the US of A, not on comb.

    Jean-Marc

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
    Posts
    1,306

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    Quote Originally Posted by jean-marc View Post
    Actually it is currently open for bees going south from here to the US of A, not on comb.

    Jean-Marc
    Hadn't heard of anyone doing so in 20 years? new one on me.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    1,865

    Default Re: Canadian border open?

    You can buy queens and have them shipped in, but very few people are shipping in because of the costs to do so. I had some shipped down 10 years or so ago, the queens were held up at the border and it took 1 1/2 weeks for them to come in. they were not in very good shape at all. here is a copy of the restrictions.

    Each shipment to the US has to be accompanied by a health certificate, the inspection to produce the certificate to be no more than 10 days before shipment. So a weekly shipment, as in our case, will necessitate weekly inspections of our yards, and each shipment has to be accompanied by invoices and export/health certificates.

    The package has to be sent through a recognized port of entry to enable each and every shipment to be inspected by an APHIS inspector, recently changed to Home Land Security, if the shipping method does not meet with his approval, then it can be destroyed at the shippers expense!

    The importer now has to apply, in plenty of time, for an import license, to the appropriate authority. Then the necessary parts of the legislation has to be initialed and returned to the authority for onward transmission to the port of entry, in time to meet the shipment. Stating all relevant information regarding who, where and when.

    I will agree, each point is not insurmountable, but can you imagine the paper trail necessary to send a single queen to a beekeeper in Ohio? At the same time I very much doubt whether that same beekeeper would even make the effort! As I stated earlier, this legislation is extremely well crafted and is just another nail in the coffin of 'free trade'.

    The legislation comes at a time when the border has been opened to allow US queens into Canada, but these restrictions are considerably tougher than the equivalent legislation out of Canada. It would appear the legislation is crafted on flawed data and needs reconsideration.

    After a great deal of searching I have been informed the problem has been created by the insistence of the Australians that the border should also be opened to both them and New Zealand, this now allows the USDA to lump Canada in with them in forming the latest regulations. The main area of concern, the Canadians would be buying queens from Aus and NZ and exporting them to the US, from experience this is highly unlikely.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

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