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  1. #1
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    Default starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    I started my queen on one frame of cone Thursday. Today I pulled the frame ,and started the Jay Smith method. The age of the eggs were from larva to one day old eggs because my queen has been laying in this cone for four days. Will the queenless bees in my starter hive make cells from these eggs,are does it have to be one day old larva?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    The bees will know which ones to use. Make sure you have an abundance (lots!) of nurse bees, honey, and pollen available in frames near the one the bees will use for queens. Feed, if there is no flow, or stores in the hive.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    It makes no difference how old the eggs are, they are not the focus of differential treatment by nurse bees. Eggs are tended minimally, until they hatch.

    When queens are to be raised, the bees choose young female larvae. Eggs that have already hatched, unless, of course, the eggs have been laid in a queen cell cup, graduating it to the status of queen cell.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  4. #4
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    In my experience they don't start queens from eggs in vertical cells, they just remove the eggs.

    They start with the right age larvae.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  5. #5
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    Quote Originally Posted by dphillipm View Post
    frame of cone
    Don't get upset, but just a little beekeeping language nit. The correct term for the structure bees lay eggs and rear young in is: "comb", like the thing you use on your hair, and not "cone", like the thing you'd expect to see on the tip of a rocket.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  6. #6
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    A little dis appointed today. I went into the strongest starter hive that I put eggs into. The bees built comb down from my strips of mixed eggs & larva. I only saw one queen cell being made from my starter frame. The bees had built queen cells on three different frames that were there when I pulled their queen 10 gays ago. None of the 10day old queen cells looked very big. I pulled these frames, and put them in two frame queen castle nucs that I made.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    How come only one queen cell made? Where are the mistake made from? Maybe
    too little nurse bees in there?

    When I do a hive check every queen cup I will take a look inside to see if anything is in there.
    I only seen one time in a natural setting, not a grafting setting that there is an
    egg laid inside an already built queen cup. Then this cell graduate into a queen cell
    that got capped later on. This is a huge qc waiting to be hatch in ~3 more days. I'm anxious to
    see what the queen look like. This is a cell that started horizontally when it is drawn out and then
    drop down vertically to be capped. Strangely though this qc was made from an old comb much like 3-5 years ago.
    Must bee that they are desperate for a supercedure cell.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    How come only one queen cell made? Where are the mistake made from? Maybe
    too little nurse bees in there?

    When I do a hive check every queen cup I will take a look inside to see if anything is in there.
    I only seen one time in a natural setting, not a grafting setting that there is an
    egg laid inside an already built queen cup. Then this cell graduate into a queen cell
    that got capped later on. This is a huge qc waiting to be hatch in ~3 more days. I'm anxious to
    see what the queen look like. This is a cell that started horizontally when it is drawn out and then
    drop down vertically to be capped. Strangely though this qc was made from an old comb much like 3-5 years ago.
    Must bee that they are desperate for a supercedure cell.
    The starter hive that I put the eggs into were boiling over with nurse bees. I used a medium frame with no foundation. I cut the comb into one cell wide strips 8" long. I used a magnifying to check the cells for eggs then punched out every other cell with a nail. Then I glued the strips with the cells hanging down with wax to the bottom&top bar. Then I put the frame in the center of the starter hive.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    Do you mean eggs or larvae? The bees don't do much of anything with eggs. They are interested in the larvae. It's the larvae that they feed to make queens. So moving eggs into a starter isn't going to get you any queens. They just remove the eggs from the vertical cells. You need larvae of the proper age. Perhaps this is why you are not getting the results you are looking for.

    Here is a queen-rearing calendar I made note of from a post on here; perhaps it will help a bit:
    Queen Rearing Calendar

    Day 0 - Start feeding hives that the nurse bees for the starter come from with 1:1 sugar water with HBH and Pollen Substitute –or—assemble the Queen Timing Box and feed it. Place the queen behind the excluder panels.
    Day 1 – The egg is laid by the queen mother
    Day 2 –
    Day 3 –
    Day 4 – Graft 12-24 hour-old larvae into cell cups (primed with a drop of royal jelly). Make up a five frame queen-less nuc, with two frames of uncapped honey and two frames of pollen. Add pollen substitute (if needed) and a wet sponge. Pack in four pounds of nurse bees. Add grafts and let sit overnight.
    Day 5 – Check your grafts: the bees should have started to draw out the cells and feed the larvae with royal jelly. If not, re-graft. Add 1:1 sw and ps if needed.
    Day 6 –
    Day 7
    Day 8 – Cull all cells that are capped (too early), those that are not 100% filled with RJ, or are misshapen or small.
    Day 9 – Queen cells are capped
    Day 10 – Sensitive developmental phase – do not move cells and be very gentle when opening the hive
    Day 11 – Sensitive developmental phase – do not move cells and be very gentle when opening the hive
    Day 12 – Sensitive developmental phase – do not move cells and be very gentle when opening the hive
    Day 13 – Move the capped queen cells into mating nucs (Queen Castles)
    Day 14
    Day 15
    Day 16 – Queens hatch
    Day 17
    Day 18 – Discard any un-hatched cells
    Day 19
    Day 20
    Day 21 – Potential Mating Flights
    Day 22 – Potential Mating Flights
    Day 23 – Potential Mating Flights
    Day 24 – Potential Mating Flights
    Day 25 – Potential Mating Flights
    Day 26 – Potential Mating Flights
    Day 27
    Day 28
    Day 29
    Day 30
    Day 31
    Day 32
    Day 33
    Day 34
    Day 35
    Day 36
    Day 37 – Check Nuc for eggs/larvae
    HTH

    Rusty

  10. #10
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    [QUOTE= The age of the eggs were from larva to one day old eggs because ?[/QUOTE]

    I am still new into this venture too. I don't understand your statement because I don't have
    much experiences in this area. Do you mean you use the one day old eggs instead of the
    one day old larvae? Or did you use the larva and from how old?

    I have been reading that the 12 hours larvae are the best one to use for grafting. Even then I
    don't have any idea what their size look like. And getting the timing done is really hard as I don't
    know when the larvae will hatch at exactly 12 hours ago. I think part of your timing is off for this
    experiment. Yes, the bees will not take the eggs. They are interested only in the young larva to
    make a queen from. This I have tried before just like you did with the eggs. They will clean up the
    cells and removed the eggs not waiting for them to hatch in a queen cup. But if you have a right
    age larvae in they will pull out the qcs. How big is a right age larvae anyways? Is that like a pin
    size dot?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    I am still new into this venture too. I don't understand your statement because I don't have
    much experiences in this area. Do you mean you use the one day old eggs instead of the
    one day old larvae? Or did you use the larva and from how old?

    I have been reading that the 12 hours larvae are the best one to use for grafting. Even then I
    don't have any idea what their size look like. And getting the timing done is really hard as I don't
    know when the larvae will hatch at exactly 12 hours ago. I think part of your timing is off for this
    experiment. Yes, the bees will not take the eggs. They are interested only in the young larva to
    make a queen from. This I have tried before just like you did with the eggs. They will clean up the
    cells and removed the eggs not waiting for them to hatch in a queen cup. But if you have a right
    age larvae in they will pull out the qcs. How big is a right age larvae anyways? Is that like a pin
    size dot?
    Where I may have gone wrong. I put the queen in a 2frame nuc. One frame was the queen and brood with nurse bees. The other James was comb.one the forth day I removed the comb to get one day old larva.working fast I started cutting strips of comb,and attaching the strips to a frame. I should have taken the comb away from the queen after one day. When I try this again I will only allow her one day to lay. I was told by a breeder that the bees will select the larva that is the right age,and they would leave the eggs along until they were four days old.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    Got it! From what I have learned, the nurse bees are with a frame of capped broods. There is no open larvae for the nurse bees to feed other
    than your graft larvae. Then add another 2 frames of nectar/pollen/honey mixed.
    The hive that the queen is in should be 24 hours queen less before putting the graft cells in. Or use another hive as a starter and finisher. I am
    thinking the queen scent is still there that they are thinking. I have a queen marking medicine tube that even after weeks of marking the queen
    they still hovering around the screen when I did my experiment. I don't know when the smell will go away without the bees attracting to the tube
    again.
    Learning from your situation I think I have to rearrange my hive to a 5 frame nuc now. And graft the queen cells in from the already build one day
    queen cup that the worker bees already started. So I only select the queen cells to graft that they had started to built. How would you improve
    your set up on the next round?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    I have been reading that the 12 hours larvae are the best one to use for grafting. Even then I don't have any idea what their size look like. And getting the timing done is really hard as I don't know when the larvae will hatch at exactly 12 hours ago.
    Beepro, you start the nuc with lots of nurse bees and a frame of stores, one of sealed/emerging brood, and a frame of drawn comb that has not been used by the queen yet. Make sure you know which frame that is. Then you place the queen in the nuc on that frame on Sunday and graft from that frame on Thursday to get larvae of the proper age. This way there is no possibility of using larvae that are too old--because you know exactly WHEN she started laying.

    HTH

    Rusty

  14. #14
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    The best age larva for rearing into queens, are generally considered to be twelve hours old, or younger. When they are no larger than the egg they hatched from, they are considered best for growing into queens.

    For some reason, known only to the bees, they will rarely, if ever, allow eggs selected by humans, to hatch into larva and be grown into queens. They almost always remove eggs from cell cups, by eating them.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  15. #15
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    I got it, Rusty! Now this process is more simplify.

    How come we cannot graft the eggs into the cell cup and plug it up for 4 days and then
    after 12 hours hatched unplug the cap so that the bees can turn them into queen bees? I
    think this is more control situation to be able to graft from the queen we like the most. Maybe
    I will try this way when there is a chance later on.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: starting queen cell from different aged eggs

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    I got it, Rusty! Now this process is more simplify.

    How come we cannot graft the eggs into the cell cup and plug it up for 4 days and then
    after 12 hours hatched unplug the cap so that the bees can turn them into queen bees? I
    think this is more control situation to be able to graft from the queen we like the most. Maybe
    I will try this way when there is a chance later on.
    Every time I ask a question from a old beekeeper it goee something like this. Well son the bees are smarter than you,are me. The bees know when the larva is the right age to make a queen. These bees know when they are queenless, and they know the colony will die if they don't get a queen. Well ,I gave them eggs that would have made larva if they had just waited. Tell me again how smart these bees are.I

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