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Thread: Confused

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,737

    Default Re: Confused

    Yeah but you didn't read that was just one random quote within the last couple days.

    The beginner could certainly conclude, just from that post, you won't lose anything to pestilence if you don't treat.

    It's about perception. Cos the beginner acts on what he perceives.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,033

    Default Re: Confused

    How exactly does "I didn't" translate to "you won't"?

    It seems to me that there is a whole lot more "I did and you will."

    To think one applies and the other doesn't is naive. What's the saying, "The optimist thinks the future is full of possibilities, the pessimist is always right."

    Is there an actual newbee who is making the case that they were deceived or is it just the veterans claiming the newbees are deceived? Because I've seen a whole lot of the latter and very little if any of the former.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,680

    Default Re: Confused

    Sol - I talked with a bunch (maybe 4) new beekeepers at bee school this year who were bound and determined to keep bees without treatments and were convinced that it would be easy. I broke their bubble telling them about my Russians. I think we are starting to ride a crest of organic & local food production and the new converts don't want to realize or won't hear that it took much work to get where we are now.
    Last edited by Andrew Dewey; 05-02-2013 at 07:43 AM.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,033

    Default Re: Confused

    I didn't say anything about "easy."

    I would imagine that the easiest thing to do by its very definition is nothing. Doing nothing is easy. Certainly doing nothing is easier than doing something. And doing less is easier than doing more.

    A thing can be done easily and still be an abject failure.

    Ultimately though, the word I used was 'naive' and I think that is the word that is applicable in the case of these maybe 4 new beekeepers, none of which apparently post on Beesource, which is the context of what we've been talking about.

    I've avoided using the word "Acebird" thus far because if one person actually matches these accusations and characteristics, it was him. Fortunately, his approached has softened of late, and that's a good thing.

    If these newbees exist and currently post on Beesource, then they haven't been paying attention, and haven't been weighing all evidence. Personally, I do not approach much of anything with such optimism and my backstory and history bears that out. Like you, I have met people out and about who think such things and I don't know of one who still has a living hive. But they didn't post on Beesource and are therefore irrelevant to the accusations made here on the forum about treatment-free proponents.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,481

    Default Re: Confused

    >The beginner could certainly conclude, just from that post, you won't lose anything to pestilence if you don't treat.

    And that would be consistent with my experience. I have lost no bees to Varroa or other pests or other diseases for a decade. I have lost them to starvation and winter and mismanagement (or lack of management) and queenlessness...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,737

    Default Re: Confused

    Well there you have it.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Lucasville, OH, USA
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Confused

    As a new beekeeper (three whole days now! ) I decided early on that I would go top-bar and treatment free; later I may try Warre and/or Langstroth hives with foundationless frames. I did a lot of reading of books and online and have come to the conclusion that I may or may not lose colonies and the losses may or may not be related to being treatment free. It is my belief from my readings that CCD is probably caused by lots of little things that, taken separately, wouldn't be an issue but piled on one on top of the other and eventually something gives. It probably isn't the same combination of things every time, either. Some I can't exercise any control over.

    But some I can, in the sense that I can avoid adding stressors to the colonies in the form of treatments and other things. I'm starting out, quite by accident, with bees that are "treatment free" (though not by the guidelines of this thread--"soft" treatments with essential oils may have been used) raised on small cell and a standard package of bees from Georgia. I don't intend to try to come to any conclusions next year based on which hive survives the winter and which doesn't or if both or neither do. We just like the idea that if we're successful we might be helping to strengthen the genetics of bees in our area.

    As for my reaction to those who say that if you don't treat be prepared to lose colonies, that does sound scary but I figure I would need to be prepared to lose colonies either way.

    Cheers,
    Tom

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Phoenix, OR
    Posts
    38

    Default Re: Confused

    I am wanting to go as natural as possible, but have been debating on if I should go treatment free or use natural treatments on my bees. This thread has been able to clarify a few things for me.

    Thanks!

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