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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Edinburgh, UK
    Posts
    223

    Default Re: Europe bans neonics in all 27 countries - landmark day for bees

    Seems to me that you are the person on this forum who spends most of his time trying to 'rile people up'; your usual techiques of sarcasm, insult, name-calling etc is evident in almost everything you post.
    This section of the forum is about so-called CCD (which doesn't actually exist - it's a 'false -flag syndrome' created by the industry's spin doctors to divert attention from the simplest and most blindingly obvious cause of global, mass bee-deaths: systemic, neuro-toxic, neonicotinoid insecticides.

    I am in touch with dozens of American beekeepers beyond this Forum and I get all the advice I need about how to keep bees from my own bee inspectors and friends over here. 'Trying to be a better beekeeper' in a landscape where 200 million acres of crops are being laced with deadly, bee-killing pesticides, year after year since 1998 - is like re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic as she went down.

    This debate is about the greatest ecological disaster ever faced in the entire history of beekeeping - ten million hives have been killed in American according to some estimates; for sure, 5,560,000 colonies have been killed since 2007 according to the EPA and USDA.

    your role on here seems to be to defend pesticides and GM at all costs. People can make their own minds up as to why you do that; but from what I have seen and witnessed here, you do it all the time, every time, every post - from way back when.

    George C Scott delivered one of the greatest lines in film history, in Dr Strangelove, when asked how he knows the Russian ambassador is a 'commie' he replies:

    "When a guy walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and hangs around the pond with other ducks - whaddaya think he is????"

    Well sir, you defend pesticides and GM till the cows come home; you do it all the time, consistently and with great energy. You also bully, ridicule, attack and try to humiliate anyone who dares to raise their head above the parapet on this devastating issue, that has produced an ecological disaster across the length and breadth of Europe and the USA. It is plain as a pikestaff what you are. You sir - are a duck!

  2. #42
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,757

    Default Re: Europe bans neonics in all 27 countries - landmark day for bees

    I don't understand why you keep pulling numbers of hives being killed. I'm certain, that 100% of beehives die eventually, so what's your point? There's nothing that proves Neonics killed all those hives or what portion were affected by them. You know what trend I see.... guys losing most of their hives didn't pay enough attention to nutrition or disease issues early enough and it finally caught up with them since winter was rough, drought etc...

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,849

    Default Re: Europe bans neonics in all 27 countries - landmark day for bees

    Thanks for the further information on my poisonous country Borderbeeman.

    However it is clear from what you say that you don't live here. You are also not above lying, as per when you were clearly caught out with your claim of being surrounded by 20 miles of continuous rape seed.

    So what you say is not trustworthy, no.

    Yes there were some beekeepers here lost a lot of hives. Events like this have happened from time to time for the more than 40 years since I started in the industry. And pesticides probably play a part, it's likely even. What's more likely in the recent cases though, is lax varroa treatment, combined with the recently introduced N. cerana. And I know for a fact that varroa were the cause in one of the cases, the others are people I don't personally know.

    Nationally, hive losses are well below 5%, many beekeepers around 1%. Few to none of the lost hives show classic CCD symptoms. If they did, the industry would very much like to know it is something that's watched out for carefully.

    I haven't really come across you before Borderbeeman, but reading this thread, I notice you don't really take anything from what anyone says, and ignore any inconvenient questions. You are here to lecture only, and a lot of what you have said is embellished, and misleading. Other comments posted show that most people see through this, and don't like it.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,919

    Default Re: Europe bans neonics in all 27 countries - landmark day for bees

    Quote Originally Posted by trance View Post
    First about Varroa: As this article states "If you’re not part of the genetic solution of breeding mite-resistant bees, then you’re part of the problem. Every time you allow drones or swarms to issue from a colony that owes its survival to a miticide application, you’re hindering the natural process of evolution toward mite-resistant bees!"
    .
    How did mites become a problem in the first place? Nobody was treating bees then. In effect you are saying that if a certain percentage, yet unknown of beekeepers start doing what all beekeepers where doing that bees will come to resist a parasite that they where never able to resist int eh first place.

    I am aware there are other issues surrounding all of this. breeding for VHS for one. but it would be interesting to know how you see this an eventual outcome. I do not even see direct effort as all that effective. the breeding of VSH for example. I not only do not see it producing very effective results. but to make it worse even if it where the beekeeping community at large is not buying it. So even if breeders did manage to breed the perfectly resistant bee. they would then have the task of selling it. and that is never goign to happen. Only a fraction of beekeepers are going to pay for queens even if they are mite resistant. I have been told on several occasions that the idea of producing 1000 queens per year is not realistic. how could all breeders combined then produce 1.8 million of them a year? In reality breeders would never be capable of filling a demand beyond a small percentage of all colonies.

    I don't really mean to pick the comment apart bit by bit. this is actually just a small portion of the entire thought that went through my mind upon reading your claim. it is not realistic. It does not take the real world or what is required to accomplish something into account.

    Not to mention that I completely disagree with the idea evolution even exists. The theories put for by Darwin in the Origins of Species where disproven before his own death. he admitted his theory was disproven himself. He stated that at eh time he wrote the book the fossil record was not adequate as evidence. but before his death he admitted that the fossil record had become adequate enough to prove his theory was wrong. for evolution to be correct you would have to be able to find fossils that could not be distinguished from one species to the other. and that clearly is not so. That they teach it does not make it truth. It just makes it taught.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Belfast, Ireland
    Posts
    395

    Default Re: Europe bans neonics in all 27 countries - landmark day for bees

    Quote Originally Posted by borderbeeman View Post

    George C Scott delivered one of the greatest lines in film history, in Dr Strangelove, when asked how he knows the Russian ambassador is a 'commie' he replies:

    "When a guy walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and hangs around the pond with other ducks - whaddaya think he is????"

    Well sir, you defend pesticides and GM till the cows come home; you do it all the time, consistently and with great energy. You also bully, ridicule, attack and try to humiliate anyone who dares to raise their head above the parapet on this devastating issue, that has produced an ecological disaster across the length and breadth of Europe and the USA. It is plain as a pikestaff what you are. You sir - are a duck!
    LOL We have been here before with your invented scenes from Dr Strangelove and you have changed the protagonists several times already!

    Borderstrangelove 21 Dec 2010

    Comedy Genius folks. Enjoy it.

    http://www.bbka.org.uk/members/forum...pg=1#post46865

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,624

    Default Re: Europe bans neonics in all 27 countries - landmark day for bees

    Quote Originally Posted by JStinson View Post
    I'm anxious to read about the unintended consequences of this.
    One possible unintended consequence that some of my friends have mentioned is fewer bee yards when other farmers see beekeepers as advisaries.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Aberdeen, Idaho
    Posts
    441

    Default Re: Europe bans neonics in all 27 countries - landmark day for bees

    Sqkcrk
    I will second the fewer beeyards. If Admire (Imidicloprid) is removed from use for potato farmers, bee keeping will be a very bad word. Admire has eliminated one of the worst pests of potato farming. The alternative is airial spraying of Organophosphates and Carbamates. These will produce bee kills, imediate ones.
    Dave

  8. #48
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    5,849

    Default Re: Europe bans neonics in all 27 countries - landmark day for bees

    Well Borderbeeman, biggest factor in CCD reported to be varroa mites.

    Probably why they don't have it in Australia.

    Quote "The federal report, issued Thursday by the Agriculture Department and the Environmental Protection Agency, said the biggest culprit is the parasitic mite varroa destructor" Unquote.

    http://news.yahoo.com/feds-many-caus...152605922.html

    Who woulda thunk!
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    226

    Default Re: Europe bans neonics in all 27 countries - landmark day for bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Well Borderbeeman, biggest factor in CCD reported to be varroa mites.

    Probably why they don't have it in Australia.

    Quote "The federal report, issued Thursday by the Agriculture Department and the Environmental Protection Agency, said the biggest culprit is the parasitic mite varroa destructor" Unquote.

    http://news.yahoo.com/feds-many-caus...152605922.html

    Who woulda thunk!
    "The intertwined factors cited include a parasitic mite, multiple viruses, bacteria, poor nutrition, genetics, habitat loss and pesticides."

    Most of these can be corrected. It's our will to do it is the real problem.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    2,531

    Default Re: Europe bans neonics in all 27 countries - landmark day for bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Well Borderbeeman, biggest factor in CCD reported to be varroa mites.

    Probably why they don't have it in Australia.

    Quote "The federal report, issued Thursday by the Agriculture Department and the Environmental Protection Agency, said the biggest culprit is the parasitic mite varroa destructor" Unquote.

    http://news.yahoo.com/feds-many-caus...152605922.html

    Who woulda thunk!

    Let's set our stopwatches to see how long it takes the "pesticide crowd" to discredit this report. I think it hit the AP at 3:46 PM.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
    Posts
    827

    Default Re: Europe bans neonics in all 27 countries - landmark day for bees

    deleted
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 14 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,811

    Default Re: Europe bans neonics in all 27 countries - landmark day for bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Burrup View Post
    Sqkcrk
    I will second the fewer beeyards. If Admire (Imidicloprid) is removed from use for potato farmers, bee keeping will be a very bad word. Admire has eliminated one of the worst pests of potato farming. The alternative is airial spraying of Organophosphates and Carbamates. These will produce bee kills, imediate ones.
    Dave
    those of us old enough to remember the bee kills from aerial spraying would dread the return of it. I've seen long lines of dead hives from it in the alfalfa fields of my youth.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: Europe bans neonics in all 27 countries - landmark day for bees

    i think the thing that is killing bees is a mix of pesticdes mono cultures treatment and varroa

    then again this is just what i think you are entitled to your own opinon

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