Page 9 of 29 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 565
  1. #161
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Sol:

    I think that step 1 should be deciding how you're going to deal with the sick colonies that aren't 'resistant'.

    Step 2 should be deciding where you'll get bee since you need to order them months in advance. (No, I don't get a crack at swarms here in the city, Tony Bees and Andy have it sewn up!)

    Step 3 getting everything else ready.

  2. #162
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    I might add another item as step 1 after having read a post on state by state bee laws...

    Become familiar with local bee laws.

    I found something in the law of Vermont for example that might require dealing with diseased colonies:

    http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/...06&Chapter=172

  3. #163
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,991

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    your lack of reading comprehension. Remember yesterday when you claimed that someone said they had lost no hives after going treatment free and you conveniently left out the words "to pestilence" even though you quoted them,
    Isn't making it seem like I said something I didn't, a straw man Solomon? well, that's what you just did to me and you do it constantly. I did not miss out the word pestilence when I quoted them, that's just your lack of reading comprehension. Here is a link to the post, post #19
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...81739-Confused
    You did not comprehend what was said. When I quoted them the quote was a cut and paste, exactly what they said. It included the words "and pestilence" that you are so worried about. When I was talking about what is said generically on the TF forum, I didn't use the words "and pestilence" constantly, I wasn't quoting any particular person either. Check your own reading comprehension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    And call me Solomon or Mr. Parker, not Sol, not Parker, and not anything else.
    You once asked me to call you Sol. Changed your mind now? Everybody calls you Sol.

    Didn't want to dredge up the argument again, but don't appreciate being lied about.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 05-03-2013 at 03:07 PM.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  4. #164
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Having reviewed a bunch of the state bee laws, I would say that step 1 would be to become familiar with the laws of your state, and that you should have a nuisance abatement plan for dealing with sick/nonresistant colonies.

  5. #165
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baker Oregon
    Posts
    2,372

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    And to rekindle the fire...

    "Starvation is a severe deficiency in caloric energy, nutrient, and vitamin intake. It is the most extreme form of malnutrition."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation
    Dan Hayden 4 Years. 9 hives. Tx Free. USDA Zone 5b.

  6. #166
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gainesboro, Tennessee, USA.
    Posts
    398

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    I think it is fair to say that there are plenty of beekeepers who experience large losses who use chemicals. Just as many (or more) than those who use no treatments or non standard methods like sugar dusting.

    In comparison to other agricultural pursuits I firmly believe that the keeping of bees is furthest behind in getting educated information to new beekeepers and to those who would make beekeeping their livelihood. Other farm pursuits such as cattle, swine, poultry, etc. are more common and have much better, easier information on the subject.

    That being said, there will always be those who get in and get out. Be it cattle, bees, or alpacas.

    Anyone who expects success right away is kidding themselves. I keep bees and farm fulltime. Tell me about the learning curves!

    Even so, success (whether fulltime or getting the honey from two hives) needs to one day, (at least) pay for itself in my book.

    We need to all as a whole be better bee propagators. That should be a standard fundamental yet it seems not near as many do it successfully as there needs to be. It does not have to be about grafting cells. Just making splits is sufficient and good practice for all beekeepers. Creating local stocks use to local flows and local weather conditions needs to be encouraged through educating.

    There are so many different ways beekeepers are keeping their bees with little to no intervention. Chemical free beekeeping is not only is possible but it should be encouraged. Of course the proper education is needed to insure a new beekeeper or a (transitioning chemical one) makes profitable and wise choices.

    Chemical beekeeping is now the old way. It will be hard to get rid of because of all the invested money behind the products.

    Things will not get better for the honeybee or the keeper until beekeepers learn how to be more locally sustainable again.

  7. #167
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,521

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    good post kamon.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  8. #168
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
    Posts
    1,256

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Kamon, that was the most sensible post in the thread.

    My favorite line:

    Chemical beekeeping is now the old way.

  9. #169
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,521

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    rh, chemical beekeeping is the 'old way' in the same way that using gasoline in automobiles is the old way. there are alternatives in the cue, and in time the 'new' ways will undoubtedly be transforming, but in the meantime we have to carry on.

    randy oliver and jim lyon are just two examples of well reasoned commercial beekeepers looking for safer, less contaminating, and more sustainable alternatives to the synthetic miticides.

    i believe that if left alone in nature the honeybee and the mite would achieve a proper parasite/host equilibrium.

    but we house our bees in an artificial cavity, moleste them on a regular basis, crowd colonies in close proximity to each other, alter their diet, and steal resources from them.

    i believe these added stressors we impose create challenges to our kept bees not experienced by bees in the wild. it seems reasonable that our kept bees would be affected by these challenges and be more likely to manifest problems coping with diseases and pests.

    my feeling is that if we are going to impose these unatural conditions to our kept bees, then it seems a little bit unfair to them to not be willing to step in and help them out if they get in dire straights.

    that being said, i am pursuing keeping my apiary off treatments in hopes that i can achieve a balance between exploiting them for a return on investment of time and money vs. keeping things as natural as possible.

    so far i have been able to replenish losses with splits and caught swarms, and i'll be starting this year to rear queens from my best colonies. i have described my plan of action for dealing with a dying colony so as to not let it be a threat to other colonies.

    propagating bees that can survive what we put them through without chemical assistance makes sense to me, and changing genetics is as easy as replacing the queen.

    preventing a collapse by stepping in with either a mechanical treatment (dusting) or non-contaminating chemical (organic acids) also makes sense to me. the resources are not wasted, the risk to nearby colonies is reduced, and new genetics can be introduced.

    jmho, but i see this as the more likely 'new' way forward than 'live and let die'.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  10. #170
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by RiodeLobo View Post
    "Starvation is a severe deficiency in caloric energy, nutrient, and vitamin intake. It is the most extreme form of malnutrition."
    And so, in reference to honeybees, malnutrition might refer to a situation in which a hive has all the bulk it needs, being stocked with sugar syrup and pollen substitute, therefore being provided with caloric energy and protein, yet being deficient in minerals, nutrients, and vitamins (if bees do in fact require vitamins as humans do). Similarly, starvation would be the critical and generally fatal condition of lack of caloric energy, stored honey/syrup.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Reynolds View Post
    We need to all as a whole be better bee propagators.
    I absolutely agree, which is why after consulting with Sam Comfort and borrowing from his ideas, I have begun adjusting and referring to my overall method as Expansion Model Beekeeping. Much talk is wasted on how many hives die and treating when energy should be invested in learning techniques of expansion. Numbers lost are irrelevant when numbers gained are equal or higher. I am as guilty as the next man of transparently reporting winter losses, but not putting so much focus on spring and summer expansion. Last year, I went from ten colonies to 23 after selling nucs and queens and after summer losses. So it's really pointless to talk about that one colony I lost over the winter, isn't it?


    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    chemical beekeeping is the 'old way' in the same way that using gasoline in automobiles is the old way.
    And that's why I have an electric car.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  11. #171
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,521

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    And that's why I have an electric car.
    for some reason that doesn't take me by surprise solomon.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  12. #172
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,521

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    Much talk is wasted on how many hives die and treating when energy should be invested in learning techniques of expansion. Numbers lost are irrelevant when numbers gained are equal or higher.
    kinda reminds me of what michael palmer has been saying for awhile now.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  13. #173
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,991

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Yes, Solomons methods are getting more like commercial beekeepers all the time.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  14. #174
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,991

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Reynolds View Post
    I think it is fair to say that there are plenty of beekeepers who experience large losses who use chemicals. Just as many (or more) than those who use no treatments or non standard methods like sugar dusting.
    If that was true nobody would actually use chemicals.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  15. #175
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    All beekeepers use chemicals. It's just a matter of what kind.

  16. #176
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
    Posts
    1,256

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    All beekeepers use chemicals. It's just a matter of what kind.
    True. I did use glue to put my boxes and frames together.

    Oh, you mean like... I do metabolize glucose?

  17. #177
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Tut, tut, tut..

    Don't forget plastic frames, coated with pesticide contaminated bees wax. Smoker fuel is a truly broad source of unusual chemicals.

    Yes, you can feed HFCS according to the subjective rules of the forum.

  18. #178
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,991

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Isn't beeswax a chemical?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  19. #179
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,521

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    technically speaking, everything is a chemical.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  20. #180
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,010

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    How do you Delete a Post?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

Page 9 of 29 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads