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Going Treatment Free - step 1

116K views 571 replies 41 participants last post by  jim lyon 
#1 · (Edited)
Full disclosure - I'm not treatment free, but I applaud anyone and everyone who has established a successful treatment free apiary. Seriously I do.

But, I would suspect that everyone who has done it would agree with a few principles:

  • Treatment free does not mean doing nothing and hoping for the best.
  • Treatment free requires at least as much understanding of bee keeping as any other philosophy - so educate yourself.
  • If you start out with a couple of generic packages from Georgia, and don't check and don't prepare for any contingencies you probably will not be successful as a treatment free bee keeper.
  • If you replace your dead outs with generic packages from Georgia every spring you probably won't ever become successful as a treatment free bee keeper.

Maybe I am wrong about some of these - and I welcome constructive input. The reason I am even bringing it up is that I get quite a few contacts via our local bee keepers association from new bee keepers who of course want to be treatment free - of course they want that, who wouldn't? But they don't understand these basic points of the pursuit. That is on them of course, it should be obvious that everyone needs to educate themselves about their chosen path. But for some reason a common take away from the treatment free internet community is that all you have to do is not treat and all your dreams will come true.

I just wish that all of the proponents would make it painfully true that at least at first - treatment free is not easy.

Or am I wrong?

Again - not hacking on the whole treatment free thing. I'll probably give it a go myself one day when I think I have achieved a sufficient state of Zen.

I almost forgot - Step 1 to becoming a treatment free bee keeper - learn to be a bee keeper.
 
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#113 ·
Post #63, Bernard says he has noticed that there is a correlation between taking honey from a hive and its survival. I'm glad to see that someone else is thinking about this. I have been mulling around whether one of the keys to the higher overwinter survival rate of nucs is that they do not have their honey taken; I suspect that there is something protective in a set-up that allows a colony to prepare for winter from the moment it is set-up and has all summer to do it. I am enjoying the civil tone of this thread. Beesource at its best.
 
#114 ·
I haven't forgotten Sol.

That's why it says 'IMO'.

You forgot to comment on this...

"...requeen with high VSH, brood breaks/splitting...."

Pathogen Spillover of Honeybee viruses into native pollinators has been demonstrated by a number of studies. It's not hypothetical.

I think that it's a good 'first step' to avoid this pitfall.

IMO.
 
#116 · (Edited)
By the way, medicinal smoker fuel is from 'Crowder'.

Maybe he's Sol's competitor?

There's nothing in the forum rules that states that 100% of your hives must be treatment free.

I think that it's OK to remove a sick hive from the 'treatment free group' and put it in the 'MAQII, IPM Organic' group'.

:)
 
#120 ·
Well no, don't get so sore.

I saw some advice given that was perfectly sound, and had nothing to do with treating / not treating. But you said the guy shouldn't post here cos he's not a TF beekeeper.

However he answered the question that was asked & saying he couldn't do that just on the basis of who he is, is over the top. Are you allowed to post on the commercial forum? Of course you are.

You may have to accept the moderation, same as the rest of us Sol. ;)
 
#123 ·
However he answered the question that was asked & saying he couldn't do that just on the basis of who he is, is over the top. Are you allowed to post on the commercial forum? Of course you are.
Whenever I post there the first thing Jim Lyon does is tell me to get out because I have day job. You know that. He does not heed his own words here.

Secondly, "Ask Questions Here" is a thread for me to answer questions.

But what I can do and what I like to do is answer questions. So I want to give everybody the free and explicit opportunity to ask serious questions. If you want to be treatment-free, or if you are weighing your options, ask away. I want to help you. I'm not going to be answering challenges or defending my methods or viewpoint. I want to help you if you want to be helped. I want to tell you what you want to know, not what you want to hear. I had tons of questions and many of them will be the same ones you are asking now. You can even go back to 2003 and see them for yourself in the archives.
So if you can somehow interpret that to mean that Jim Lyon, a commercial treating and feeding beekeeper, ought to be answering questions addressed to me, you're missing something.
 
#128 ·
Malnutrition can occur when Bees collect and consume poor quality pollen. In our area the summer titi bush is an example. If you live in an area of lots of summer titi your bees will forage on it. Feeding it to larva results in "purple Brood". Which ends in dead pupae from poor nutritional value if the summer titi. Look it up if you wish.

The strange thing is that a sister plant, the spring titi is excellent forage and nectar producing plant.

Something can starve to death eating a poor nutritional value food. A root plant in Africa comes to mind as does cellulose.
 
#136 ·
I am pretty sure folks aren't checking into the treatment free forum to hear about Sol's perceived problems with posting on the commercial forum nor do they want to hear my defense. My only comment would be that former moderators should know better than anyone that criticism of moderation has never been tolerated on this or any other forum.
 
#139 ·
Bit touchy today?

My understanding when someone says they do not feel free to do something, is that they don't do it. If I said I wasn't free to do something, that's what I would mean.

You do do it, why not just fess up instead of insinuating otherwise?

My point is, you post there, so don't get wound up if they post in some other place.
 
#142 ·
if they post in some other place.
I posted in a thread on treatment-free beekeeping, you know that. I am one. He isn't. Yet he feels no compunction about posting in the treatment-free forum in threads not related to commercial beekeeping.

The only equivalence is that we both complain about the other. What's the problem?
 
#151 ·
Word games and dross.

And Sol, call me Oldtimer.
It's interesting how you use the charge of "word games" to cover your lack of reading comprehension. They're just words, no games involved. Remember yesterday when you claimed that someone said they had lost no hives after going treatment free and you conveniently left out the words "to pestilence" even though you quoted them, just like you did here today? When you leave out words in the middle of a sentence, it changes the meaning. We cannot be held responsible for your inability to read what's on the screen. My words speak for themselves. If you would like clarification, simply ask. Don't continue to tell me I said something when the words are right there on the screen where everyone can see.

And call me Solomon or Mr. Parker, not Sol, not Parker, and not anything else. I have the responsibility for my words to appear under my own real name.
 
#152 ·
just like old times.

i mentioned once in a pm that my favorite members of beesource were also my nemeses.

and mark, step 2 should probably be to maintain a sense of humor. :)

the sun just popped out, going to check on the bees.

still a good thread, many thanks to all for posting.
 
#154 ·
Back on topic, if you want to put actual steps on it, I would put ordering bees somewhere around step 5 or maybe even later. In fact, I'd recommend trying to catch swarms before ordering things. Why take shortcuts? Read, research, visit a beekeeper, work that person's bees a few times, read, ask questions in forums, buy or make equipment (make being preferred if possible), assemble equipment, catch swarms, and if that doesn't work, order bees.

Did I take all these steps? No, no one told me about any steps.

Since one wants to do this treatment-free, one ought to consult treatment-free sources, beekeepers, books, forums, websites, etc.

As far as moving from treating to not treating, never done it. You'll have to ask someone else.
 
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