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  1. #481
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    3,051

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by David LaFerney View Post
    So lets just say that I'm willing to order years in advance, and pay stupid high prices - is there anyone who is selling queens propagated and bred from an operation like this? "Cause it seems like they are unobtainium.

    You might be surprised how much you could get to fund that equipment you need.

    And yes I know that northern bees wouldn't be the ticket for me. Why don't you rear a batch or three for the good of the cause Solomon Parker?
    Problem seems to be, Survivor Queens from Ark. and Indiana aren't survivor queens when they get to NC.

    Seems to me, that when it comes to Survivor Queens.... ya gotta go get your own....
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  2. #482
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    From my perspective all the guys who claim these great queens can't make any and sell them.... tried over 12 guys this year looking for suvivor stock for a real test against production queens... so far no takers... sell me anything until they hear they will be tested....

    Come on Tim, your ladder assistant could do some grafting...... you should be doing your part to repopulate the USA with great survivor stock...... Maybe Mel could give you some tips... oh wait hes a hack... I forgot....
    My 3 associates have their own hives they have to tend to.

    I don't use grafted queens.

    If Mels method is so great then you shouldn't be needing anything.

    I'm doing my part on repopulating bees in my own yards and my ladder assistants.

  3. #483
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    Problem seems to be, Survivor Queens from Ark. and Indiana aren't survivor queens when they get to NC.

    Seems to me, that when it comes to Survivor Queens.... ya gotta go get your own....
    Highly agree...

    Regional one would be fine. But north/south I would find questionable????

    Won't accomplish mating nucs for this year, but I got material for 200 started and acquired enough material for about 300 more.

    I'm doing everything by myself, except when pulling honey. Making equipment, making splits, adding boxes when needed. Can't seem to find more than 24 hrs in a day or a 8 day week.

  4. #484
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,110

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    Problem seems to be, Survivor Queens from Ark. and Indiana aren't survivor queens when they get to NC.

    Seems to me, that when it comes to Survivor Queens.... ya gotta go get your own....
    You know, I actually do believe that treatment free works or can work. Our state apiary inspector who probably sees more bee hives than anyone else in TN, and whose opinion I respect, told me recently that he Does see success among treatment free bee keepers - loosely defined treatment free, not necessarily so much of the Purist kind. Not that extreme treatment free doesn't work, just that a lot of "treatment free" folks use essential snake oils or something.

    But the "it doesn't work unless it's under the handkerchief" - or "I'm just too busy to do that - maybe later" responses does lend a distinct aroma - even if one wants to believe. Just sayin'.

    But it is well established that Tim does not care what anyone else thinks. So there we are.

  5. #485
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,110

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    Won't accomplish mating nucs for this year, but I got material for 200 started and acquired enough material for about 300 more.
    Awesome - I stand corrected.

  6. #486
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,110

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    You know, going from not rearing queens to running 500 mating nucs is a heckuva leap - right?

  7. #487
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by David LaFerney View Post
    You know, going from not rearing queens to running 500 mating nucs is a heckuva leap - right?
    Instead of making full hive body splits, I'll use the mating nucs instead. Won't need a ladder for them..lol

  8. #488
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Queens and nucs already fund the equipment I need, plus some stuff I don't need!

    And I assure you, they're not unobtainium, there are now several users of this website who have some of my bees, and I've had no complaints and have not even heard that any have been lost.

    I'm not sure how the price is relevant, if you want shiny trinkets, you ought not expect scrap iron prices. I got numerous emails of the sort "will you have queens on such and such a date?" to which I consistently replied, "if you'd like to make a reservation, I will put you on the list." Never heard back. Now I am getting multiple emails of people asking for queens and all I can say is "they're all spoken for." Seems like y'all should already know that bees are hard to get this time of year. Every month I post about how short my season is. It's almost over now. So I don't see how this is my problem.

    If only I could find some young enterprising person like Sam Comfort to come be attentive to the bees daily and live in a van and make queens for me for which I would pay that person a substantial cut of the sales. Otherwise, I have to do it myself and that makes the operation necessarily limited. So, if you want bees from me, follow the procedure. You can start now, the 2014 list is yet empty.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  9. #489
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    3,051

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post

    If only I could find some young enterprising person like Sam Comfort to come be attentive to the bees daily and live in a van and make queens for me for which I would pay that person a substantial cut of the sales. Otherwise, I have to do it myself and that makes the operation necessarily limited. So, if you want bees from me, follow the procedure. You can start now, the 2014 list is yet empty.
    I've seen that model carried out quite successfully. Sometimes even the untrained can be taught to be successful at grafting.... particularly these young girls with tiny nimble fingers and excellent eye site can turn out some fine numbers..... assuming of course that they have the interest and motivation.

    It seems to be hard to fine "Real TF" people.... I would think that a Parker Queen or an Ives Queen would fetch a premium price..... I bet you are underpriced.
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  10. #490
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    It's called a businees plan for a reason.

    However, without the right profit margins, and of course, the right paperwork, it becomes difficult to make anything happen.

    Perhaps you should examine a chemical free model like the one used by BeeWeaver.

    Hint: it's in the South.

  11. #491
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Tim:

    Have you looked at Mel's "on the spot" queen rearing methods?

    You've got 75 colonies that aren't in towers. Why don't you sell uncapped virgins for a start?

    That's 100 per body by the way. So, 7,500 X $20-35 + the usual express mail shipping and handling markup.

  12. #492
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    I bet you are underpriced.
    Almost certainly.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  13. #493
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Tim, I'm interested in this idea of old queens not moving down in the spring, can you elaborate on this?
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  14. #494
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,675

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    "The only beekeepers with good queens are beekeepers that are raising their own queens."

    - Albert Einstein
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  15. #495
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    674

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    hey deknow.. Einstein was a physicist, did he really quote that?
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  16. #496
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    "The trouble with quotes on the internet is you never know if they're genuine." - Sir Isaac Newton
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  17. #497
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,015

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    I'm doing everything by myself, except when pulling honey. Making equipment, making splits, adding boxes when needed. Can't seem to find more than 24 hrs in a day or a 8 day week.
    Just the honey crop alone, 457 lbs per hive, ought to be able to finance a bit of labour to raise some queens?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  18. #498
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,015

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    I've seen that model carried out quite successfully. Sometimes even the untrained can be taught to be successful at grafting.
    Yes the untrained can do it. Here's how I got started.

    The boss was a pretty tough old guy, I was a teenage kid. I'd often been the "gopher" when grafting was being done, running cells between starter hives etc. I'd seen plenty of grafting but not done it.

    One day the boss says "Hey Al. You graft today". I'd never grafted but didn't want to admit it, so did what I'd seen others do and grafted away, while someone else was the gopher. Then, an anxious 24 hour wait to see what sort of take I got, and yes I was nervous the boss was slow to forgive bad performance.

    Anyhow we open the starters, and Whoah! Very high take. . The boss said "pretty good Al", and from that time I did all the grafting.

    Anybody wanting to try it, just go for it. The grafting is actually the easy part, the important part is plenty bees, plenty food.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  19. #499
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Oltimer:

    Say the beeleepers name, especially if he's gone.

    Superstiiciton you know.

  20. #500
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    Tim, I'm interested in this idea of old queens not moving down in the spring, can you elaborate on this?

    Observation after a period of time. I see 3rd season queens being the most prolific year. Then brood frame counts drops from there. If I have a chance to mark a queen I will. I don't specifically use time to do so. Brood boxes are painted to correspond to queen colors. So i know which year that hive was created. Hives that swarm or supercede do not produce the average in honey production. If a hive is with in average the first round but not the second round but is above average on goldenrod. Then high probabilty it swarmed in late June..

    Since all hives are set up the same going into winter. There's a fairly close average of what's going on in late winter. I use a stethoscope with end piece removed. I can tell by sound where the cluster is. Again there is a average of what's going on. Around Feb 20th prolific queens drop all the way down. This is where all the pollen is. Once the brood is capped. The cluster will move up to 2nd deep then the 3rd as they consumed the honey to make brood. Once fresh pollen comes in around March 11, then they'll start drone brood. Once drone brood starts emerging, they can start swarm cells. Which is why I start supering before that happens. Once the worker brood emerges and they start the nectar flow off crop 'weeds'. They get crowded real quick.

    Older queens fails to drop down in what I call hyper-lay mode and is out of the average of activity. After seeing this a few years. I started taking away the bottom 2 deeps to cull out old frames. Once a new queen was created, then would add new deeps. Kinda like if it was a split.

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