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  1. #421
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,296

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Got bees. But, I'm not as unbelievably successful as you are.

    I just wondering why you don't think that feeding back significant amounts of stores isn't '...feeding anything.'..

    Tim, it's not just me. Some heavy hitters are having trouble figuring out what you're doing too.

    Maybe if you drew out a chart or something?

  2. #422
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    339

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Actually what I'm doing can be followed thru the Unity Garden Project/PeaceBees fairly closely with the on going bee classes at the garden.

  3. #423
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,296

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Links Tim. Links.

    For everything if you have them. Please.

  4. #424
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    339

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    I don't touch the deeps....... Why would I waste time to extract then turn around feed it back. Sure, I could take 15,000# more if I wiped out all my deeps. I'm not greedy...........

  5. #425
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,296

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    OK.

    So you're leaving $30K of honey on.

    That's one of the issues I've had with this method of teatment free beekeeping. It's resource intensive. Between the splitting to outbreed mites, and building up tower, honey production hives, the resources had to come from somewhere.

  6. #426
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    3,891

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    I just wondering why you don't think that feeding back significant amounts of stores isn't '...feeding anything.'..
    No offense, but are you familiar with the term "beating a dead horse?" Everyone understands that you consider the way Tim uses honey as feeding and he doesn't. You disagree on what it is called or is - can that be agreed upon?

  7. #427
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,296

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    David:

    No problem. Let's say that he's leaving significant resources for the bees.

    15,000#s! Holy tower hives!

  8. #428
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    3,891

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    OK.

    So you're leaving $30K of honey on.

    That's one of the issues I've had with this method of teatment free beekeeping. It's resource intensive. Between the splitting to outbreed mites, and building up tower, honey production hives, the resources had to come from somewhere.
    It's not if it results in lower hive losses. You save money on labor and supplies when you don't feed, medicate, buy bees, deal with dead outs, etc.

    So, what if he does leave on $30,000.00 worth of honey every year? It's not a recurring expense if the system works. With sales of splits and a very large honey crop from the managed hives it sounds to me like a decent living is to be made from a number of hives which technically isn't even on a commercial scale.

    Should we just swallow it all hook, line and sinker? It's on the Internet isn't it?

    I don't know about you, but I take it all with a grain of salt - you may be a 14 year old kid for all I know. Maybe we all are. Seems that way sometimes.

  9. #429
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    339

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Futher more.... I didn't come on here a start advocating what I'm doing. Someone else did...

    It doesn't matter to me how ANYONE keeps their bees.

    To be speculating what I'm doing and not having a clue what I'm doing. YOU WILL GET SARCASTIC AND DEMEANING responses from me. That's just me...... Like it or Not......
    Last edited by Barry Digman; 05-29-2013 at 07:25 AM. Reason: language

  10. #430
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,646

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    TIm, I am still a bit confused.... your average honey numbers per deep are about normal, no doubt the numbers of bees are strong, but why stack so high when you could accomplish the same in singles with 3-4 supers each???

  11. #431
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    339

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    On the point of one deep system. Sure you can get 100-150# of honey off them.
    Would love to see you try to overwinter them singles here in northern Indiana.

  12. #432
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    3,891

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    TIm, I am still a bit confused.... your average honey numbers per deep are about normal, no doubt the numbers of bees are strong, but why stack so high when you could accomplish the same in singles with 3-4 supers each???
    I get that much - the three deeps are integral to the don't feed, don't treat, don't have big losses system. Doubles or singles might produce as much honey relatively speaking, but would have higher losses and require more management.

  13. #433
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Stillwell, KS
    Posts
    625

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Tim,

    How are you are getting such a great early spring build up?

    How do you like to set up your hive for winter?

    Thanks,

    Don

    Please watch the swearing it will get you run also, I for one would like to learn more from your posts.

  14. #434
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    3,891

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by D Semple View Post
    I for one would like to learn more from your posts.
    Same here.

  15. #435
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    339

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Then to accomplish the same, I would need 300 bottom board's,inner covers, lids , hive stands and 3 times the space. Add all them expense up for me. Not to mention the gamble of the loss of 8+years of sugar free/ treatment free raised genetics. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.

  16. #436
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Citrus County, Florida, United States
    Posts
    258

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by David LaFerney View Post
    It's on the Internet isn't it?

    I don't know about you, but...you may be a 14 year old kid for all I know. Maybe we all are. Seems that way sometimes.
    SOMETIMES?

  17. #437
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,646

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    Then to accomplish the same, I would need 300 bottom board's,inner covers, lids , hive stands and 3 times the space. Add all them expense up for me. Not to mention the gamble of the loss of 8+years of sugar free/ treatment free raised genetics. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.
    Tim, was trying to argue your method, just understand the reason. I am a bit farther south, and winter singles fine... but its not your weather thats for sure........ I chose toto run more bottoms and forgo the ladders and helpers.... but am not argueing you method at all, its your hives.

    You make a staement there thats a bit interesting... and thats "gambeling the loss of treatment free genes" to me what your saying is that the treatment free is developed more around a huge winter cluster than genetics.......

  18. #438
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,033

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    to me what your saying is that the treatment free is developed more around a huge winter cluster than genetics.......
    The two are not unrelated. In my experience, the hives that survive are the ones who naturally conform to the conditions present. That means here in Northwest Arkansas, the hives that survive are the ones that typically keep fairly small winter clusters. When you keep huge hives (as I do year 'round) the cluster size is as the bees would have it. They may have three deeps full of honey, but the cluster is the size of a soccer ball. That's how they want it and it works.

    Now if Tim's bees need to do something different in his area, that's what they need to do. I see it as a function of larger enclosures allowing the bees to do what they want. Three deeps is good, five is better. If I were him, I'd leave supers on year 'round, but that's just me. I have much more limited flows. The only reason big truck commercials stop here is for McDonalds.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  19. #439
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    3,891

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    Then to accomplish the same, I would need 300 bottom board's,inner covers, lids , hive stands and 3 times the space. Add all them expense up for me. Not to mention the gamble of the loss of 8+years of sugar free/ treatment free raised genetics. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.

    Exactly! The same reason that treaters and sugar feeders keep doing what they are doing - it is working for them, and their living depends on it.

    But I agree with you. For beginners tall hives can produce honey crops sooner and with less investment. For anyone I guess. If you are willing and able to deal with the tall stacks. If not then go your own way.

    Question - you manage some hives for honey, the ones that you don't have supers for you split, and sell some of the increase - right? What do you do with the rest of the group you split? Do they get rotated into production somehow - or just increase comb and other resources?

    Also, you Must have an occasional tall hive that goes queenless. How do you monitor and manage that? I assume that you are not doing major inspections of them during honey season since swarm management is integrated in the system. Around here they would get robbed out if you were lucky, but more likely they would be destroyed - comb and all - by an incredible disgusting mass of hive beetles and wax moths.

  20. #440
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    3,891

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    For $30K, you could get 300 nucs at $100 each.

    He's running 75 towers (if I read him correctly).

    Why would you need all the other stuff?

    Why overwinter?
    Why wear underpants? Isn't commando cheaper? Well, don't if you like it that way. Personal preference. Now you ARE just trolling.

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