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  1. #221
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post

    i don't think northern indiana has quite the dearth that we have down here, (if you live up there and i'm wrong about this please correct me), or it could be that tim has a great location with acres of clover that provide abundant nectar through the summer months.

    i wonder though, if there really isn't significant nectar available as reported by others in the area and those mega colonies are still producing honey through the summer, is it possible they are so strong that they are able to get it from other bees?
    Here's an interesting piece that has more on his strategies. He has only a brief dearth, in August, if I'm understanding this article:

    http://www.indianahoney.org/2013/02/...-Corn-Belt.cfm

    An interesting bit I got from the piece is that Tim thinks a lot of beekeepers are not taking full advantage of early flows, because their hives are not strong enough early.

  2. #222
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    From the tower description, he's got to be using at least one hive body that's got a brood break while raising queen cells, and the rest filled with brood comb combined from other colonies to focus on honey production.

    That setup means that the bees won't be using honey for brood rearing, they're going to store most of it as honey (even in the brood area as the bees emerge), and it has a run of about a month or 2.

    But, it also means that you have a bunch of other colonies needed for support, and they need to build up again since their brood frames were used to build the powerhouse honey hive.

    So, you'll need alot more colonies than you have towers of power to make it work. And yes, you'll have to do alot of feeding to be ready to catch the flow.
    It blows my mind that anyone would spend so much time assuming the details of a beekeepers system...and sharing them. All of the statements and assumptions to this point in the post are not true, at least based on the talk by Tim that I attended.
    Why would you bother to share so many ignorant assumptions? What's the point?

    The MDA splitter method is a chemical free way to outbreed mites, and produce honey.
    There are numerous ways to raise queens and split colonies...none of them "require" chemicals per se. ... I'd bet that the vast majority of folks using "the MDA splitter method" or "on the spot queen rearing" are also using mite treatments.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  3. #223
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    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    Here's an interesting piece that has more on his strategies. He has only a brief dearth, in August, if I'm understanding this article:

    http://www.indianahoney.org/2013/02/...-Corn-Belt.cfm

    An interesting bit I got from the piece is that Tim thinks a lot of beekeepers are not taking full advantage of early flows, because their hives are not strong enough early.
    thanks ray, and that makes sense.

    i'll read it this evening.

    that was part of walt wright's strategy to his towering hives and 200+ lbs harvests, along with effective swarm prevention.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  4. #224
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    thanks ray, and that makes sense.

    i'll read it this evening.

    that was part of walt wright's strategy to his towering hives and 200+ lbs harvests, along with effective swarm prevention.
    I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Tim is a follower of some of Walt Wright's strategies, because he mentioned to me that his supers are checkerboarded... and that his strategy for preventing his hives from swarming involves keeping the waxmakers fully occupied. After seeing that video of him unwrapping a hive in early March, and seeing how many bees he had, the first thing I asked him was how he kept those hives from swarming as soon as the first big flow hit. Part of it was timing, he said, because he used to wait until swarming season began before he piled on the supers, but once he realized he had to do it well before the first swarms appeared, he had much less trouble with swarming.

  5. #225
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    Dec 2002
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    Denver, Colorado
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    5,071

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    but once he realized he had to do it well before the first swarms appeared, he had much less trouble with swarming.
    I credit my limited volume of swarms to my keeping full sized hives year 'round.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  6. #226
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    New York City, NY
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    "Why would you bother to share so many ignorant assumptions? What's the point?"

    Deknow:

    You do get (so called) "Fat Bees", or vitellogenin rich nurse bees in the 'MDA Powerhouse Honey Hive'.

    You're adding 18 frames of brood to three deeps with a queen excluder seperating the deep supers (that's what Mel described) from the deep bodies.

    By the way, there are artificial ways of making vg rich bees using RNAi.

    I was on the mark. However, I would ask the question, "did anyone actually measure the vg levels in those 'young nurse bees', or is this simply way more frames of capped brood hatching than eggs being layed by a queen.

    The vg or fat bees claim is simply just that unless they can prove it.


    Queen pheromone products are available for sale, so technically, you don't need to have an actual queen present.

    Dean:

    Watch your tone.

    I'm not taking the fat bees/vg claim as proven.

  7. #227
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    May 2009
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    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    and that his strategy for preventing his hives from swarming involves keeping the waxmakers fully occupied.
    I wonder how he does that? Just keeping foundation on your hives is not going to significantly cause the to lay down comb..... unless there is a flow on.....

    The only way I can think of to keep your bees young would be to keep placing capped brood into the hive... and that brood has to come from somewhere.... so one hive gets young whlie the other gets old.

    It is an interesting manipulation, but I do not understand it....
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  8. #228
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    It blows my mind that anyone would spend so much time assuming the details of a beekeepers system...and sharing them. All of the statements and assumptions to this point in the post are not true, at least based on the talk by Tim that I attended.
    Why would you bother to share so many ignorant assumptions? What's the point?
    I don't understand it either. Anyone who read the thread would have known that Tim does not feed. He told me that he makes all his increase from captured swarms and splits. I got the impression that he does not rear queens; he lets his splits do the work.

  9. #229
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    I wonder how he does that? Just keeping foundation on your hives is not going to significantly cause the to lay down comb..... unless there is a flow on.....
    I'm a beginner, so maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if there's no flow, then there should be little swarming impulse, right?

    I may also be misunderstanding Tim's use of the term "checkerboarding." I believe that in Walt Wright's system, this involves putting supers with alternating frames of capped honey and drawn comb above the brood nest. In that case, there would be little waxmaking going on, or so it would seem.

    I guess Tim will have to write a book.

  10. #230
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    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    SP is pretty much on the money on this one. It takes a pretty special medium to squeeze out even 40 lbs. net. I usually "ball park" them at a 33 average if they are reasonably full for easy figuring and it's never too far off.
    It's pretty close to a quart per medium frame.

  11. #231
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    What I am saying is that Tim is combining brood (and perhaps other resources) from multiple queensright hives to build his honey towers.

    It's an old beekeeper's trick.

    Not really the result of treatment-free beekeeping.

    If you have the resources, you can give it a go.

  12. #232
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Tim is a follower of some of Walt Wright's strategies, because he mentioned to me that his supers are checkerboarded... and that his strategy for preventing his hives from swarming involves keeping the waxmakers fully occupied. After seeing that video of him unwrapping a hive in early March, and seeing how many bees he had, the first thing I asked him was how he kept those hives from swarming as soon as the first big flow hit. Part of it was timing, he said, because he used to wait until swarming season began before he piled on the supers, but once he realized he had to do it well before the first swarms appeared, he had much less trouble with swarming.
    I ran across this in another thread "(early in the season) The natural inclination is to move up--the inability to do so is what starts the chain of events that lead to swarming." I don't know if that is exactly true or not, but it does explain some swarm prevention manipulations - box reversal, checkerboarding, early supering - pretty handily, and might be a good rule of thumb.

  13. #233
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    What I am saying is that Tim is combining brood (and perhaps other resources) from multiple queensright hives to build his honey towers.
    It's an old beekeeper's trick.
    Not really the result of treatment-free beekeeping.
    If you have the resources, you can give it a go.
    That would be a great point...except that it doesn't apply to Tim's management.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  14. #234
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  15. #235
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    I seriously doubt that 18 frames of brood (capped would make sense here), would come from a single hive.

    18 capped frames of brood would give you alot of nurse bees at one time.

    You do realize that without anything to nurse, those newly emerged nurse bees will quickly become foragers.

    He's going to have to explain where those 18 brood frames came from.

  16. #236
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    What I am saying is that Tim is combining brood (and perhaps other resources) from multiple queensright hives to build his honey towers.
    Why would you say this when you have no way of knowing if it's true?

    By the way, it isn't.

  17. #237
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    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    What I am saying is that Tim is combining brood (and perhaps other resources) from multiple queensright hives to build his honey towers.

    It's an old beekeeper's trick.

    Not really the result of treatment-free beekeeping.

    If you have the resources, you can give it a go.
    Yea... that is what I thought too.... good trick though...
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  18. #238
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Those towers are a result of a management practice. He feeds honey and pollen stores early on.

    With enough hives, it's possible to have enough frames of capped brood to build honey towers with 18 frames of capped brood apiece. If he gets the timing right for the flow (and it might be tough going this year) he's on a roll.

    Why would anyone think that only a treatment free beekeeper can pull this off?

    I won't argue that it's interesting.

    But, if he falls off of that ladder, knocks over the tower, and breaks a leg...

    there's going to be a whole bunch of angry bees to contend with.

  19. #239
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    Why would you say this when you have no way of knowing if it's true?

    By the way, it isn't.
    So how does he get all those young waxbuilder bees? When my bees have spend a lot of time building comb, I make little honey..... 6-7 lbs of honey for one pound of wax.
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  20. #240
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    hpm:

    I've known the people of Northern New Jersey for my entire life.

    They love to tell a good story. Especially if you're willing to listen.



    'Fat Bees'?

    Heh, heh.

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