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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Stillwell, KS
    Posts
    645

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    There's nothing in the forum rules that states that 100% of your hives must be treatment free.

    I think that it's OK to remove a sick hive from the 'treatment free group' and put in the 'MAQII, IPM Organic' group'.


    Practical recommendation WLC, welcome back.


    Good thread folks.

    Don

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Polk County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    252

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post

    I think that it's OK to remove a sick hive from the 'treatment free group' and put in the 'MAQII, IPM Organic' group'.


    So it's considered a treatment free hive until there is a noted problem and then its treated? Isn't that what the majority of us do anyways

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    However he answered the question that was asked & saying he couldn't do that just on the basis of who he is, is over the top. Are you allowed to post on the commercial forum? Of course you are.
    Whenever I post there the first thing Jim Lyon does is tell me to get out because I have day job. You know that. He does not heed his own words here.

    Secondly, "Ask Questions Here" is a thread for me to answer questions.

    But what I can do and what I like to do is answer questions. So I want to give everybody the free and explicit opportunity to ask serious questions. If you want to be treatment-free, or if you are weighing your options, ask away. I want to help you. I'm not going to be answering challenges or defending my methods or viewpoint. I want to help you if you want to be helped. I want to tell you what you want to know, not what you want to hear. I had tons of questions and many of them will be the same ones you are asking now. You can even go back to 2003 and see them for yourself in the archives.
    So if you can somehow interpret that to mean that Jim Lyon, a commercial treating and feeding beekeeper, ought to be answering questions addressed to me, you're missing something.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,016

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    Starvation in bees happens when bees run out of honey and die. What is malnutrition in the case of bees?
    Starvation IS malnutrition. There are other forms of malnutrition besides starvation. For one thing even natural forage isn't a monolithic thing - For example I'm willing to bet that some pollen has a higher protein content than others. I know for a fact that some nectar is as thin as water, while other flows are syrupy when they appear in the hive. It seems like I've read that some forage sources are toxic.

    Just a guess - but most likely there are also other variations in nutrients between different forage sources - vitamins, minerals, different sugars. When there is a dearth, bees will take whatever they can find from any source - including residue from soft drink containers. Bee keepers feeding HFCS is surely not the only cause of malnutrition for bees.

    So, when I said malnutrition that is what I meant - improper, or inadequate nutrition including starvation, but not exclusively starvation. And after looking it up in several sources I am fairly confident that I was using the word correctly.

    But all that being said, feel free to point out any spelling or punctuation errors that I make while you are at it. Please allow me to apologize in advance - I'm sure there are plenty of them.

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,929

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    Whenever I post there the first thing Jim Lyon does is tell me to get out because I have day job. You know that.
    Well no I didn't know that.

    I've seen you post there.

    And nobody had a problem with it.

    The only reaction I've seen is when you offered to run someone's hives for them, and that was rejected, but in good humour.

    Bottom line, you feel free to post there, and you do post there.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,791

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    So, what's Step 2?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,929

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by David LaFerney View Post
    But all that being said, feel free to point out any spelling or punctuation errors that I make while you are at it.
    Ha Ha I love the humour in this place!
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Panama City, Florida, USA
    Posts
    554

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Malnutrition can occur when Bees collect and consume poor quality pollen. In our area the summer titi bush is an example. If you live in an area of lots of summer titi your bees will forage on it. Feeding it to larva results in "purple Brood". Which ends in dead pupae from poor nutritional value if the summer titi. Look it up if you wish.

    The strange thing is that a sister plant, the spring titi is excellent forage and nectar producing plant.

    Something can starve to death eating a poor nutritional value food. A root plant in Africa comes to mind as does cellulose.

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by David LaFerney View Post
    feel free to point out any spelling or punctuation errors that I make while you are at it.
    Is this really necessary David? I have never corrected your spelling or grammar, much less anyone else's. Though I feel brain cells dying when I see someone misspell "hobbyist." I simply disagree with how the term malnutrition is commonly used in reference to beekeeping. A malnourished (but not starving) child is a totally different thing than a malnourished (but not starving) bee. They are totally different things. Maybe you can see how I might not agree with the same word being used for both. No straw men about correcting your spelling and grammar are necessary.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Straw men?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    The only reaction I've seen is when you offered to run someone's hives for them, and that was rejected, but in good humour.
    That person offered for me to manage their operation, then when I volunteered, they quickly retracted. It may have been in good humor, but it was not in good faith.

    And no, I do not feel free to post there because of the aforementioned reason (Jim Lyon and the other commercial beekeepers who do not welcome any not perceived to be of their fraternity). I have asked for a forum related to non-commercial for profit beekeeping, and the idea received a lot of support, but it has been forgotten.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  12. #132
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    Dec 2002
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    Denver, Colorado
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Straw men?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  13. #133
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    And no, I do not feel free to post there.
    I have SEEN you post there.

    I haven't seen you being made unwelcome, but even if you have been it is untrue to say you don't post there.

    While you might have your opinions about who can post where, end of day that will be for the moderator to decide, and that will be based on content rather than who it is.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  14. #134
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    5,929

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Oh thanks for telling me what the straw man is. Now I'll be able to put a name on it when someone does it to me!

    Or, maybe that's not a good thing.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  15. #135
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
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    5,079

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    it is untrue to say you don't post there.
    "I do not FEEL FREE TO post there." Which words are you missing in this sentence?
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  16. #136
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,332

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    I am pretty sure folks aren't checking into the treatment free forum to hear about Sol's perceived problems with posting on the commercial forum nor do they want to hear my defense. My only comment would be that former moderators should know better than anyone that criticism of moderation has never been tolerated on this or any other forum.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,412

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    . "Ask Questions Here" is a thread for me to answer questions.
    this is a thread like any other thread on beesource sol, and contributors are free to weigh in as they see fit.

    trying to control the content and stifling input from others didn't work, remember?

    i felt that asking someone to move on because their approach is different than yours was wrong and violated the spirit of the free exchange of ideas that makes beesource what it is.

    maybe your personal blogspot is the place for what you would like this thread to be.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  18. #138
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    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    I'm not criticizing moderation, I'm simply saying there is none. Surely if there was, there would be some pretty obvious evidence.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  19. #139
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    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Bit touchy today?

    My understanding when someone says they do not feel free to do something, is that they don't do it. If I said I wasn't free to do something, that's what I would mean.

    You do do it, why not just fess up instead of insinuating otherwise?

    My point is, you post there, so don't get wound up if they post in some other place.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  20. #140
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    trying to control the content and stifling input from others didn't work, remember?
    What on earth are you even talking about?
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

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