Page 6 of 29 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 565
  1. #101
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
    Posts
    1,250

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Foster Collins View Post
    Nothing you're saying or doing is countering the idea that it isn't simple.
    Who is saying that it is simple? I still haven't seen any examples of this idea. Who have you been reading or listening to that has said that treatment free beekeeping is simple? Was it someone you had any reason to take seriously?

    Honestly, I wish the folks who are implying that beginners take up treatment free beekeeping because someone told them it would be easy or simple or surefire would give us some examples of this actually happening. Maybe some completely clueless newbee might have expressed such a hope, but who would take that seriously? I spent literally hundreds of hours this winter trying to learn everything I could about beekeeping, and I don't recall seeing that notion put forward even once. There's a huge difference between saying "I succeeded at treatment free beekeeping" and saying "I succeeded at treatment free beekeeping and there was nothing to it."

    To me, it seems as if you are worrying about an incorrect attitude that doesn't actually exist.

    Every credible source I've read has said that going treatment free is tough and that losses must be expected. Where did you hear different?

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,718

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    It's easier cos you don't have to "mess with all those chemicals", and it's cheaper.

    That idea has definitely been eschewed. But lately, by which I mean the last year or two, things have got a bit more real.

    Also, a lot of the more misleading stuff has been said by beginners without much experience. But other beginners still read them and take the message, same as any beginners reading you and assume you must know what you are talking about. So why not believe any other rank nubee?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    While I think that it is at least the same amount of work as standard beekeeping, if not more, I wouldn't characterize treatment free beekeeping as any more challenging than standard beekeeping. You'll need to use alot of the same equipment and mnagement practices anyway.

    It's easy to obtain suitable bees whether you get them from Bee Weaver, or they're VSH, or you get them from another source.

    The challenge of establishing a treatment free apiary isn't much different from a standard apiary. It takes time (and money) to figure out what works.

    There is one statement that was made regarding not needing to do mite counts because the affected colonies would be culled. I think that is a mistake since you want to avoid having resistant colonies that have significant mite counts and high virus titers that can have an adverse local impact.

    This abstract on pathogen spillover can help you understand why all treatment free colonies aren't desirable:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21735887

    In my opinion, it's just beekeeping, but 'different'.
    Last edited by WLC; 05-02-2013 at 06:20 PM.

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Arma, Kansas USA
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    While I think that it is at least the same amount of work as standard beekeeping, if not more, I wouldn't characterize treatment free beekeeping as any more challenging than standard beekeeping. You'll need to use alot of the same equipment and mnagement practices anyway.

    It's easy to obtain suitable bees whether you get them from Bee Weaver, or they're VSH, or you get them from another source.

    The challenge of establishing a treatment free apiary isn't much different from a standard apiary. It takes time (and money) to figure out what works.

    There is one statement that was made regarding not needing to do mite counts because the affected colonies would be culled. I think that is a mistake since you want to avoid having resistant colonies that have significant mite counts and high virus titers that can have an adverse local impact.

    This abstract on pathogen spillover can help you understand why all treatment free colonies aren't desirable:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21735887

    In my opinion, it's just beekeeping, but 'different'.

    Newbee last year:

    I have done nothing except not treat and started with 5 nucs last year. Over wintered them and i am up to 12 this year and plan to split again as soon as the snow melts. ya, snow. What the luck in Kansas.

    It is possible! Time will tell, as it has for others.

    God Bless

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,277

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    While I think that it is at least the same amount of work as standard beekeeping, if not more, I wouldn't characterize treatment free beekeeping as any more challenging than standard beekeeping. You'll need to use alot of the same equipment and mnagement practices anyway.

    It's easy to obtain suitable bees whether you get them from Bee Weaver, or they're VSH, or you get them from another source.

    The challenge of establishing a treatment free apiary isn't much different from a standard apiary. It takes time (and money) to figure out what works.

    There is one statement that was made regarding not needing to do mite counts because the affected colonies would be culled. I think that is a mistake since you want to avoid having resistant colonies that have significant mite counts and high virus titers that can have an adverse local impact.

    This abstract on pathogen spillover can help you understand why all treatment free colonies aren't desirable:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21735887

    In my opinion, it's just beekeeping, but 'different'.



    well stated, and i agree with all of that. welcome back wlc.

    monitoring for and dealing with severely infested colonies is the responsible approach.

    mites and the associated viruses are spread by strong colonies robbing out dwindling colonies.

    why put your healthy colonies, your neighbor's colonies, feral colonies, and native pollinators at risk unecessarily?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,176

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post

    monitoring for and dealing with severely infested colonies is the responsible approach.
    How do you "deal with severely infested colonies"?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Sugar dusting, grease patties with essential oils, 'medicinal' smoker fuel, requeen with high VSH, brood breaks/splitting....

    It's better to try than to let the hive become a local problem and die in my opinion.

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,176

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Thanks. But how is that "Treatment Free"? Isn't sugar dusting an Off Label usage? What is "medicinal smoker fuel"?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,033

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Looks like someone is forgetting what forum they are in again.

    Medicinal smoker fuel is a red herring, that's what it is Mark.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    It's more IPM than orthodox treatment free. Juniper is considered 'medicinal' smoke since it drops alot of mites.

    Mitigating pathogen spillover is more important than being orthodox in my opinion.

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    It's more IPM than orthodox treatment free. Juniper is considered 'medicinal' smoke since it drops alot of mites.

    Mitigating pathogen spillover is more important than being orthodox in my opinion.

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,718

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    Looks like someone is forgetting what forum they are in again.
    Leave that stuff to the moderator.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Hudson, WI USA
    Posts
    2,172

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Post #63, Bernard says he has noticed that there is a correlation between taking honey from a hive and its survival. I'm glad to see that someone else is thinking about this. I have been mulling around whether one of the keys to the higher overwinter survival rate of nucs is that they do not have their honey taken; I suspect that there is something protective in a set-up that allows a colony to prepare for winter from the moment it is set-up and has all summer to do it. I am enjoying the civil tone of this thread. Beesource at its best.

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    I haven't forgotten Sol.

    That's why it says 'IMO'.

    You forgot to comment on this...

    "...requeen with high VSH, brood breaks/splitting...."

    Pathogen Spillover of Honeybee viruses into native pollinators has been demonstrated by a number of studies. It's not hypothetical.

    I think that it's a good 'first step' to avoid this pitfall.

    IMO.

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,277

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    How do you "deal with severely infested colonies"?
    great question mark.

    as is 'what do you consider a severely infested hive?'

    since most of the tf beekeepers participating here don't take mite counts, none of them have been able to tell me what levels of infestation are being tolerated by their colonies.

    i'll be trying to figure that out for my bees by using the alcohol wash method, and correlating mite counts to colony observations.

    the ones with the highest counts will likely be dequeened, given a brood break, dusted, and split up into nucs for overwintering.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    By the way, medicinal smoker fuel is from 'Crowder'.

    Maybe he's Sol's competitor?

    There's nothing in the forum rules that states that 100% of your hives must be treatment free.

    I think that it's OK to remove a sick hive from the 'treatment free group' and put it in the 'MAQII, IPM Organic' group'.

    Last edited by WLC; 05-03-2013 at 03:03 PM.

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,033

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Leave that stuff to the moderator.
    Yeah, we used to have one of those.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,718

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    The current moderation appears to allow for the free thinkers among us, which has to be good.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,033

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Announcement: This is now the "Treament-Free (while they're not being treated) Beekeeping Forum."

    What a crock of hooey.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,718

    Default Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

    Well no, don't get so sore.

    I saw some advice given that was perfectly sound, and had nothing to do with treating / not treating. But you said the guy shouldn't post here cos he's not a TF beekeeper.

    However he answered the question that was asked & saying he couldn't do that just on the basis of who he is, is over the top. Are you allowed to post on the commercial forum? Of course you are.

    You may have to accept the moderation, same as the rest of us Sol.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

Page 6 of 29 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads