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Hive Box Manufacture

22K views 55 replies 26 participants last post by  Rob73 
#1 ·
I am looking to start building my own langstroth hive boxes. I am looking to see if anyone know of the best way to cut the finger joints on the end of the boxes? If there is a machine that is made to do that please let me know where. I would rather not have to do one at a time on my tablesaw. Just looking for help. Thank you all.
 
#6 ·
Does anyone know the origin of finger joints for hive boxes? Do they serve any useful purpose? It seems to me that they expose an enormous amount of endgrain to the elements and create a lot of crevices for moisture to penetrate into the wood. I don't use them for my home-made boxes and I have had no issues with durability or strength. Am I missing something?
 
#10 ·
Box joints have been around since roman times, I think. Prior to the introduction of synthetic glues in the 1930's and 1940's, the only substantial joint for boxes was a box joint -- it's the only one that holds indefinitely when dry nailed and pried on at the corners (bee hives).

That said, I found some pictures the other day from my Grandpa's apiary in 1950. He used butt or single rabbet boxes and the ones I saw looked pretty good. Kept them well painted, too, and I'm sure he didn't use glue ( too poor for anything fancy like that). I don't know how well they lasted for him, he quit beekeeping in about 1965 or so.

Box joints are superior for one simple reason - any vertical force on the end of one side of the box is transmitted to the rest of the box, particularly the adjoining board, by the wood itself where the "fingers" interlock. All other joints transfer forces through the fasteners (nails, screws, glue). If the joint every works loose for any reason, only the box joint will stay together in use, all the rest will open up.

If you don't believe me, try to take a nailed box joint apart without pulling the nails.

Peter
 
#13 ·
That said, I found some pictures the other day from my Grandpa's apiary in 1950. He used butt or single rabbet boxes and the ones I saw looked pretty good. Kept them well painted, too, and I'm sure he didn't use glue ( too poor for anything fancy like that). I don't know how well they lasted for him, he quit beekeeping in about 1965 or so.

Box joints are superior for one simple reason - any vertical force on the end of one side of the box is transmitted to the rest of the box, particularly the adjoining board, by the wood itself where the "fingers" interlock. All other joints transfer forces through the fasteners (nails, screws, glue). If the joint every works loose for any reason, only the box joint will stay together in use, all the rest will open up.

If you don't believe me, try to take a nailed box joint apart without pulling the nails.

Peter
I'm not disagreeing with any of psfred's post but using it to frame a few thoughts of my own:

I find, amongst the oldest of my boxes -and some are old the ones which have endured time the best are those with simple butt-joints; still very solid. They're followed by the finger-joint boxes. The least successful always appear to me to be the ones with rebated (rabbet) joints.

My thinking here is, yes the box joints are probably far stronger in the short term but over the years they're more prone to water and trauma damage (remember that these boxes were built without glue so I can't judge whether that might have changed the outcome any). Likewise, the rebated boxes have that weakened point where material has been taken away; they often 'wobble' due to the amount of board that's been removed over the entire length of the joint (interestingly, I've seen these joints referred to by some UK beekeepers as the strongest of all.... they must be using much younger boxes than my examples!).

Just my thoughts based on observation of old boxes of the three kinds that have been in constant use, side by side, over a period of decades. When I build new boxes now, they get butt-joints.
 
#18 ·
> I consider this comment to be SPAM.

Well, perhaps you were not aware that the only members who can post in the Beesource For Sale forum are those who have paid a subscription to do so. I personally have no problem with the funds to keep Beesource online coming from members who have something for sale! :lookout:

Mr
Korschgen even discloses in his post that the link he provided is to the For Sale forum.
 
#19 ·
Not to mention I watched his video and it's a pretty cool system. I'm no woodworker so maybe I'm just easily impressed, but it looked to me like with that even I could make box joints. I don't know if it's worth $185 plus 10$ handling, plus shipping, but then again I don't know what a good Jig costs. I guess if I found a great local source for wood and was going to make a ton of boxes that would be the way for me to go. Then again I'd still probably screw it up. LOL
Rod
 
#21 ·
If you want use scrap wood and you dont want to cut box joints you can buy brackets from Echo Bee Box (just google their web site) The Jig I recommended, and later Carl posted about, is a very good system, and will save a lot of headach if you decide to go with box joints... They look easy but they are a real pain if you dont use a jig...
 
#22 ·
Depending on whether or not you count the cost of a dado blade, my jib cost either less than a dollar or about $120 (two different dado sets to get one I liked).

You need a board, a slide for the table saw drilled to screw a board to (they all are) and some scrap to cut a locating finger with, and a c-clamp. Takes maybe 20 minutes if you can already operate a table saw, it's not hard.

Peter
 
#26 ·
I may try some with Rabit Joints, but my box joints with deck screws and gorilla glue seem to be holding up well, caught my 6 yr old daughter jumping off one that she turned on it's side I had made up ready to go when I need it , she got a butt chewing and then I check it to see if it was damaged and it was still completly square, who knows how long she had been doing it
 
#27 · (Edited)
Making beehive components is a matter of safety, scale, and efficiency.

The type of joint that is used is personal preference but the preference of business customers is often mediated by the standards set by the large manufacturers. Some of the early posts in this thread were links to machines (some probably worth $500,000 or more) that could remotely make box joints in seconds – in thousands of boards a day. Someone who has lots of time (relatively free) and is less interested in a profit margin can have a system that might produce a dozen boxes a day or season. Entrepreneurial beekeepers (now starting regional beekeeping supply businesses) need options to match the scale of their enterprises – be it 100 or 1000 boxes a year. The cost of making any joint is way beyond the cost of a jig and cutting tool. Look around your shop. You need a variety of power machines, dust collecting devices, building, electrical service, handtools, etc.

Carl Korschgen
 
#28 · (Edited)
Harley Craig. My apologies, I must have misread your post above.

If you are making box joints with deck screws and gorilla glue, you will not have a problem. I really doubt that your daughter will do any harm to them the way you are making them.

psfred... What dado set did you go with? I have three sets, and I like the Oshlun the best, but, I have never had the Freud, and people really give them a thumbs up.

carlimo...you are exactly right. Making bee equipment for yourself from salvage or scrap wood and cheap table saws and dado sets is a whole different ball game than making bee equipment to industry standards on a scale to make it profitable, and with perfection that will insure repeat sales of your products.

cchoganjr
 
#29 ·
Cleo:

My table saw prefers the Oshlun (or a clone) with two chipper teeth on each chipper. It chokes on better blades, not enough power. Probably need to save up my pennies and get a better motor and direct wire it, too much power drop with a cord, even a good one.

Harley:

I change blades all the time on my saw, I use a rip blade for rips, a combination blade for rips in thin material or plywood, and a good crosscut blade for crosscuts, especially in hardwood. I also cut a wide variety of dados for various purposes, changing blades on a table saw is just part of using one.

When I'm making boxes, I tend to collect up wood, cut all the sides to length and width, then set up the box jointjig, get everything aligned perfectly, and cut half a dozen boxes or more at one time. All the boxes use the same jig, just more passes for the deeper boxes. That way, once I get it right, all the boxes work out properly. I've got mine set now so that I have to tap the boxes together so there are no spaces between the fingers at all. Just a tiny bit of glue and they are completely sealed. Once they are assembled, I coat them with a generous coat of boiled linseed oil, then alkyd primer, then two or more coats latex exterior paint.

Peter
 
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