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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Marshall county, AL
    Posts
    501

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    I didn't take any pictures of what I built. Here's a link to the video I got the idea from. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5yWQCARkUw I used a larger piece of plywood on the deck of the saw than he did, and I only made one 15 degree sled and just use spacers on the sled when cutting the shorter ends of the boxes. I didn't see a need for 2 sleds when a spacer is quick and easy to stick on. I set my blade at a 20 degree angle which with the sled being built at 15% gives a nice undercut on the handle. Really makes it easy to grab hold of.

    One thing I figured out yesterday that is much easier on the blade and saw is to "drop" the material to be cut into the sled when the sled is pushed against the backstop. That lets the dado blade cut the deepest part of the notch using the tips of the blade, instead of the sides of the tips to cut with. I then lift up the sled and material then slide it into the blade as he does in the video. That may not make sense, and if it doesn't, let me know and I'll try to take a short video tomorrow of how I'm cutting them.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Pitman, New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    34

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    nope, I got it. thanks for the video. I kinda like the idea of of using the table saw better than the skill saw.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,604

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    If you are looking for a safe, easy, fast, way to make the handles, here is a link to my u-tube video to make them with a SkilSaw. Beesource has the plans to make the jig in their, "Make it Yourself", library or, I will e-mail to you.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaWRjpJ5f0w

    cchoganjr

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    740

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Thanks for the input on cleats, guys. I guess I'm leaning toward using 2" x 8" material for the short ends and carving out a really deep smile pocket. That should also make VERY strong joints. Of course, it means all new tops and bottoms....ugh!

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Marshall county, AL
    Posts
    501

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Quote Originally Posted by rnsykes View Post
    I kinda like the idea of of using the table saw better than the skill saw.
    Me too. I've had a skill saw kick back on me one too many times. I much prefer a table saw.

    One thing I'll add is that on the 15% sled, if you make it 1 1/2" wider than the long side of a box it will help when adding the cleats on the ends of the sled. You really only need a cleat on the right side of the sled, if you slide it towards the blade from the clockwise rotation side, but put a 1 1/2" wide cleat on each end of the sled, leaving about 1/8" gap on the left side for wiggle room. This will let each cleat stick over the end of the sled by 3/4" and will give a nice hand hold on the sled. My cleats only stick over about 1/4" but I can still use them as a handhold. With a handhold on each end of the sled, you can hold the work piece on the sled with each thumb and keep your fingers wrapped on the handhold which keeps them safely away from the saw blade.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,604

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Brad Bee If you build the jig that I use for the Skil Saw, it cannot kick back. It is already against the side stop. There is no where to kick to. I am not freehanding but rather using a jig which holds the saw inside the stops.

    I have made thousands of hand holds and have never, ever, had even the slightest problem .

    But, whatever works for you.

    cchoganjr

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    jackson co. al.
    Posts
    64

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Maybe some of you guys are still on here if you will google
    John Rohrer. he built one nice all joints on a end at once do a box in less than one min. video on youtube i just ordered one he in wakeman OH

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Santa barbara, CA
    Posts
    57

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    John Rhorer YouTube Link CLICK HERE

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,604

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Anyone know what the Rhorer machine sells for?

    cchoganjr

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    4,980

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Cleo, on another thread $3500 was mentioned.

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...84#post1087184
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,604

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Thanks Radar.

    It sure looks like a good machine.

    cchoganjr

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    jackson co. al.
    Posts
    64

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Yep 3500 bucks in a couple wk will let you know how good i will be driving to Oh. and pick mine up

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    740

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Incidentally, two beehive boxes and a Miller-type hive top feeder toppled down a hillside last week. The boxes are about 5 years old, all stapled profusely, glued with Titebond III, treated with boiled linseed oil, and painted with exterior latex . The Miller-type feeder box built with butt-joints blew up entirely. A rabbeted-joint deep brood box tore out at the staples on one corner, but held at the other (rendered useless, unless I can build a corner and fit that in to the damaged box while not splitting the corner that held...?). The box on top that fell the farthest and hit by far the hardest was a finger-box joint deep brood box. Only the 3/8" rabbet where the frames rest broke out on one side, the joints all look like new (the repair will be easy).

    Not a scientific test, just an accident, but somewhat telling about the strengths of the respective joints. I will be building with the finger box joints from now on! Had the finger-box-jointed box been made with that new arrangement that Brushy Mountain came up with, I may have had NO damage to that box!

    I was just glad my suit was on and bee-tight! Those poor bees were NOT TOO HAPPY with that off-road ride...

    One other aspect that could be affecting discussions on comparative joint strength is the wood grain at the joints. Try to avoid knots and wavy grain in the area of the joints - any joint will last longer if the grain is straight and strong around the joints, and I notice that glues all work better when the adjoining grains are about the same size - that is, all tight grain or all large grain, as opposed to large grain into small grain on the mating workpiece (I suspect that the reason is probably different shrinkage rates due to grain size). In fact, I notice that medium to large grains seem to glue better than tight grains (my suspicion here is that tight grains seem more prone to twist, warp, or cup than do medium and large grain woods - but that may well vary with different species), but this is years of subjective observation from building aircraft with spruce and cabinetry from hardwoods, not backed up by testing FBJ's made of sugar pine or Bald Cypress subjected to weather nor scientific study.

    Three things are certain - tight joints, spreading glue on BOTH SURFACES of all joining surfaces, and strong clamping all make stronger joints. Two possible exceptions: 1) if a joint is made, clamped, then disassembled while the glue is still wet, then re-assembled without re-gluing, it may or may not be strong => therefore wipe clean, re-glue and re-spread the glue before re-clamping; 2) if a very wet sponge is used to clean up a small, thin glue joint, it may wash out the glue, rendering the joint weak => therefore squeeze out the excess water from the sponge before wiping off excess glue from a clamped joint.

    One more thing is becoming clear - end grain cut oversize and sanded smooth and well-painted stays stronger after 5 years in the weather than does rough-sawn end grain given the same paint and exposed to the same weather. It seems that rough-sawn end grain gets many more splits and checks than sanded end grain. Sanded end grain seems to stay married to the paint better, probably deterring water from causing damage, but again, this is experience from my limited observation on sugar pine belt sanded to 120 grit, not proven through rigid study, unless someone knows of any such studies?...

    I suspect that discussion regarding comparative strengths of joints is a case of apples + oranges + opinions = no real data until more thorough studies of destructive testing are made, so for now I'm going with my own experience. So far my experience has a strong bias for the finger box joints accurately cut, well-glued, firmly clamped, and made from straight, medium-sized grained, riff-sawn wood.

    Hope this helps...
    Last edited by kilocharlie; 04-16-2014 at 06:09 PM.

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