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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Polk County, OR
    Posts
    2

    Default Hive Box Manufacture

    I am looking to start building my own langstroth hive boxes. I am looking to see if anyone know of the best way to cut the finger joints on the end of the boxes? If there is a machine that is made to do that please let me know where. I would rather not have to do one at a time on my tablesaw. Just looking for help. Thank you all.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,676

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Welcome to Beesource!

    Here is a guide to making hive box joints on a tablesaw with a dado blade:

    http://www.beesource.com/files/boxjoint.pdf
    -- Victor Hugo -- "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Bellwood, Pa (USA)
    Posts
    31

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
    Posts
    1,917

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    This looks like a handy little device to cut boxes with


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LgAhqAOFQs&sns=em

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Seneca Falls, NY
    Posts
    44

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    This guy is great to deal with and his Jig is really really good. He also makes a hive handel jig
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGRRoFw6lro

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Madison, WI, USA
    Posts
    175

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Does anyone know the origin of finger joints for hive boxes? Do they serve any useful purpose? It seems to me that they expose an enormous amount of endgrain to the elements and create a lot of crevices for moisture to penetrate into the wood. I don't use them for my home-made boxes and I have had no issues with durability or strength. Am I missing something?
    life is finite while knowledge is infinite. - Zhuang Zi

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Spencer,MA USA
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    cutting finger joints is a waste of time. A plain rabbet joint on the end when glued and stapled is just as strong and
    less time consuming unless your making some fancy English garden hives.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,617

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    After 70 years, the box joint super will be in much more rigid than the rabbit joint. It is your call, are you in this for real, or just a short timer?

    Crazy Roland
    5th gen. beekeeper

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Casey, Il, USA
    Posts
    957

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    I just use butt joints with wood glue and 2 in deck screws and take less than 15 min to build and they are solid as a rock with a good coat of paint I will guarentee I will get my $6 worth out of them

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,473

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Box joints have been around since roman times, I think. Prior to the introduction of synthetic glues in the 1930's and 1940's, the only substantial joint for boxes was a box joint -- it's the only one that holds indefinitely when dry nailed and pried on at the corners (bee hives).

    That said, I found some pictures the other day from my Grandpa's apiary in 1950. He used butt or single rabbet boxes and the ones I saw looked pretty good. Kept them well painted, too, and I'm sure he didn't use glue ( too poor for anything fancy like that). I don't know how well they lasted for him, he quit beekeeping in about 1965 or so.

    Box joints are superior for one simple reason - any vertical force on the end of one side of the box is transmitted to the rest of the box, particularly the adjoining board, by the wood itself where the "fingers" interlock. All other joints transfer forces through the fasteners (nails, screws, glue). If the joint every works loose for any reason, only the box joint will stay together in use, all the rest will open up.

    If you don't believe me, try to take a nailed box joint apart without pulling the nails.

    Peter

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Columbia, Missouri
    Posts
    47

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Folks,

    I have developed a new box joint jig that is ideal for beekeepers who want to make their own boxes. Please open this link to the BeeSource For Sale Forum.

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...Carl-Korschgen

    Carl Korschgen

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,617

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Well said, PSFred.

    To each his own. I plan on building with only box joints.

    Crazy Roland

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    portland, dorset, UK
    Posts
    128

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Quote Originally Posted by psfred View Post
    That said, I found some pictures the other day from my Grandpa's apiary in 1950. He used butt or single rabbet boxes and the ones I saw looked pretty good. Kept them well painted, too, and I'm sure he didn't use glue ( too poor for anything fancy like that). I don't know how well they lasted for him, he quit beekeeping in about 1965 or so.

    Box joints are superior for one simple reason - any vertical force on the end of one side of the box is transmitted to the rest of the box, particularly the adjoining board, by the wood itself where the "fingers" interlock. All other joints transfer forces through the fasteners (nails, screws, glue). If the joint every works loose for any reason, only the box joint will stay together in use, all the rest will open up.

    If you don't believe me, try to take a nailed box joint apart without pulling the nails.

    Peter
    I'm not disagreeing with any of psfred's post but using it to frame a few thoughts of my own:

    I find, amongst the oldest of my boxes -and some are old the ones which have endured time the best are those with simple butt-joints; still very solid. They're followed by the finger-joint boxes. The least successful always appear to me to be the ones with rebated (rabbet) joints.

    My thinking here is, yes the box joints are probably far stronger in the short term but over the years they're more prone to water and trauma damage (remember that these boxes were built without glue so I can't judge whether that might have changed the outcome any). Likewise, the rebated boxes have that weakened point where material has been taken away; they often 'wobble' due to the amount of board that's been removed over the entire length of the joint (interestingly, I've seen these joints referred to by some UK beekeepers as the strongest of all.... they must be using much younger boxes than my examples!).

    Just my thoughts based on observation of old boxes of the three kinds that have been in constant use, side by side, over a period of decades. When I build new boxes now, they get butt-joints.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Marshall county, AL
    Posts
    756

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Rolande, if you put 2 of the wood biscuits on the butt joints I bet they would last even longer.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,740

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    With good glue, any joint will outlast the beekeeper and and most of his/her relatives. Use the one you like.

    cchoganjr

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Palermo, Maine, USA
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    I use half blind dovetails. I can cut both sides of a joint in one pass, and find it much quicker than cutting a box joint.

    This is the jig that I use: http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-4...etail+jig+4210
    Like us on facebook This is the place to bee!
    Ralph

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,327

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Quote Originally Posted by carlinmo View Post
    Folks,

    I have developed a new box joint jig that is ideal for beekeepers who want to make their own boxes. Please open this link to the BeeSource For Sale Forum.

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...Carl-Korschgen

    Carl Korschgen
    I consider this comment to be SPAM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,676

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    > I consider this comment to be SPAM.

    Well, perhaps you were not aware that the only members who can post in the Beesource For Sale forum are those who have paid a subscription to do so. I personally have no problem with the funds to keep Beesource online coming from members who have something for sale!

    Mr
    Korschgen even discloses in his post that the link he provided is to the For Sale forum.
    -- Victor Hugo -- "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sullivan, MO
    Posts
    875

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    Not to mention I watched his video and it's a pretty cool system. I'm no woodworker so maybe I'm just easily impressed, but it looked to me like with that even I could make box joints. I don't know if it's worth $185 plus 10$ handling, plus shipping, but then again I don't know what a good Jig costs. I guess if I found a great local source for wood and was going to make a ton of boxes that would be the way for me to go. Then again I'd still probably screw it up. LOL
    Rod

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,327

    Default Re: Hive Box Manufacture

    So post it in the sale forum, not in the middle of a thread.

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