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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Default my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    I have a trap out to do in a guys wall and I would like to try to get the queen, I have been researching the Cleo Hogan trap but didn't want to have to build a custom female piece on every trap out depending on angle of tree, wall, etc So instead of a wooden box I used 2 in PVC with a floor flange. On a flat wall it will be mounted as seen, if it's in a tree that is leaning, I can put a very small flexible piece of hose that will allow the connection between the box and the flange which should allow it to flex several degrees. For the cone portion of it, I decided to go right into the cap and it's hard to tell but it point up at over a 45 deg angle. Hopefully I can get the queen in the box and just slip the cap over the pipe and trapout the rest of the bees. I will be installing it on a guys wall this weekend, I will keep you posted of my progress.

    What do you think so far?



  2. #2

    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    I have thought of doing the same basic ideas. The other thought I have is to use two pipe of different sizes and side one into the other. Giving you some flex Ability.
    David

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
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    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    Quote Originally Posted by My-smokepole View Post
    The other thought I have is to use two pipe of different sizes and side one into the other. Giving you some flex Ability.
    David
    This would be my choice as well. It would be much easier to build.

    I would also consider having a PVC pipe as the front entrance to the box to resemble the opening that they would have recently learned to use...
    BeeCurious
    5 hives and 8 nucs................... Trying to think inside the box...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
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    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    Absolutely that will work. In all my presentations I say that you can use PVC pipe, rubber hose, any way to mate the two transitions together,

    Just try to get the box as close to the feral brood nest as possible, so the queen has less distance to travel, so she will use the trap as a brood chamber.

    I build mine out of wood solely because I have the scrap wood. There is nothing majic about wood tunnels.

    cchoganjr

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    lee county, fl, usa
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    883

    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    And for those of us who are not carpenters, there is Walter Kelly Swarm Harvester designed by Cleo C.Hogan. I bought mine for a tree removal and with Cleo's instructions and tutoring, successfully removed bees from the tree and got 2 colonies from it. A few months later I removed a colony from a cinder block wall, another colony. It works great for me! That and bait boxes are my preferred methods of getting bees as I don't have to worry about bees absconding, and very little labor on my part. Harvester paid for itself.

    https://kelleybees.com/Products/#cat...3330&category=
    Pleasant words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. Prvb 16:24
    March 2010; +/- 30 hives, TF

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Casey, Il, USA
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    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    I saw those harvesters, I run all med and am starting a TBH so I just grabed a Med box I built, I know it will fill up faster on a trap out, but I can just as easily just super the trap or remove more frequently I'm not the best woodworker so that is why I went with the pvc design all you need is a box and a 2 in hole saw and a few fittings.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Springhill, Louisiana, USA
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    94

    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    Good idea. It looks like vacuum cleaner hose would work or clothes dryer hose.

    Say, what do you do about the comb, brood and honey after you trap out the bees?
    Let's turn it around
    America Bless God

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Grass Valley, California, USA
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    25

    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    I read that people let a strong hive rob it out by placing honey in the outside entrence to get them started. Then you can patch all holes and leave the comb.
    By Their Fruits Ye Shall Know Them

  9. #9
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    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    Yip once you get them all out brood and all after they've hatched and they call the new hive home all you have to do is disconnect and let them rob out their old home

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Miami, FL
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    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    It'll work. As long as you have brood and comb in the box already, the workers will be like "hey we got all this room over here, come check it out." She'll be there and the rest of the bees will follow. Might be a good idea to put some kind of queen excluder on the entrance part of the pipe, she might work her way back once the brood in the wall has hatched. Of course wait until you have spotted her in the trap. Good Luck, Awesome idea.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    Quote Originally Posted by BackYardPhenomena View Post
    It'll work. As long as you have brood and comb in the box already, the workers will be like "hey we got all this room over here, come check it out." She'll be there and the rest of the bees will follow. Might be a good idea to put some kind of queen excluder on the entrance part of the pipe, she might work her way back once the brood in the wall has hatched. Of course wait until you have spotted her in the trap. Good Luck, Awesome idea.
    My understanding is that once you spot her in the trap OR start seeing new eggs that is when you put the cap on that has the funnell in it

  12. #12
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    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Gregory View Post
    Another thought... why not just make the cone a bee escape... so they cant go back in? If you did that the queen would go out and be traped out.
    .......um its got one look again at the cap at the end of the tunnell

  13. #13
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    Apr 2013
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    Grass Valley, California, USA
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    25

    Embarrassed Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    Oh my bad.
    By Their Fruits Ye Shall Know Them

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    San Mateo, CA
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    4,990

    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    In what percent of Hogan trapouts does the queen come out into the trapout box?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Dublin, California
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    197

    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    The idea is not to catch the queen correct? Do you normally requeen or let the hive requeen itself to keep the new genetics?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Park City Ky
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    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    odfrank...I have about quit trapping,( only have two set for this Spring) ( and I am retiring from selling bees, will likely just keep a dozen or so hives for private honey stock and give aways) but, when I actively trapped bees here are my findings.

    The queen will come into the trap most of the time, to either find the queen that layed the eggs in the trap, or, to use the trap as another chamber to lay eggs. If you are wanting the queen it will require checking the trap every few hours after introduction of the unsealed brood. To answer your question....

    From trees and tanks etc, where the trap transition can be fitted very near the feral brood nest, during a good honey flow with expanding population and queen looking for places to lay eggs, success rate about 80 to 85 percent.

    In walls, buildings etc, more difficult to determine where the brood nest is, and often the trap cannot be placed close enough for the queen to come out to lay or investigate where the brood,(the frame you give them) came from. In these cases, the success rate falls to 35 to 45 percent.

    Without a good honey flow, success rate about 35 to 55 percent. The queen may come to investigate the eggs but, if she doesn't find a queen, or need the room to lay, she may just return to her source and you may miss her.

    I rarely trapped to get the queen. I prefer to take multiple managed starts from the colony and let the trapped bees either make their own queen, or, introduce a mated queen after removing frames from the trap and relocating the new colony. I used the same feral sources for several starts each year. Now days, gasoline is so expensive, and trapping requiring multiple trips to the trap site, that trapping is not as attractive as it once was, unless the trap site is close and handy for you to work.

    Trapping is a lot of fun, and, you learn a lot from it. Sometimes it is necessary when someone wants the bees gone for whatever reason. In that case, try to get the queen, save all the bees, and move from that location.

    cchoganjr

  17. #17
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    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    I was just looking up some pipe dimensions here.
    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pv...ons-d_795.html

    Sch 40 2.5 inch pipe has an OD of 2.875 while the three inch has an ID of 3.068 which is a difference of .193 This will make a slip fit with a gap small enough bees cannot get through it at right around 3/16th of an inch. This combo could be used to make an adjustable slip connection between the flange at the hive entrance and the trap out box.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  18. #18
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    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    3/16" = 0.1875"

    The difference in your pipe diameters is 0.193"

    Bees can squeeze through 1/6" = 1.666"

    3/16" will not stop them. Maybe if you put a couple of wraps of duct tape on the smaller one...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  19. #19
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    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    1/6 = 0.166 Just in case anyone tries to use these numbers for anything.
    I ran out of time yesterday while posting this. Tape will work. But also keep in mind the gap is half of the difference. Assuming the pipes are positioned evenly. So a difference of 0.193 when set up correctly would leave a gap of 0.0965. #8 hardware cloth is 0.125. but this requires meticulous placemen of the two pipes which is not likely to happen.

    Better yet is the sch. 80 pipe. 2.5 inch has an OD of 2.875 while the 3 inch has in ID of 2.9 for a difference of 0.025. This creates a gap of 0.0125.

    I have done a lot of work designing things that will slip inside other things. and this is pushing the limit to what I consider a good slip fit. It would require fairly accurate placement of the pipe or they will simply bind. I still consider it the best combination for this application. Schedule 80 pipe may be a little harder to source.

    I have not seen a trap out yet that was placed nice a neat against a flat surface. so their is still the issue of how to box in or enclose the entrance to the hive to then produce a nice flat surface to mount a toilet flange on. I have attempted locations such as the soffit of a roof where the soffit kept the same pitch as the roof. creating basically a triangle shaped space. I have found them int eh corner where a brick chimney met the wall of the house. Also the top of a pillar at the corner so you have both an outside and two inside corners to deal with all at the same time. I have also found them at the trim of a window which is the closest to a flat surface I have seen. They have had their entrance in the valley of a roof. Never have I found the surface at the entrance of a hive to be the same twice. I woudl be interested in hearing ideas on how to transition from this endless geometry to a flat surface where the flange can be mounted.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Bastrop TX USA
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    228

    Default Re: my version of a Cleo Hogan Trap opinions please.

    "I woudl be interested in hearing ideas on how to transition from this endless geometry to a flat surface where the flange can be mounted."

    This is why I wonder if it would be possible to use a dryer hose or some other flexible hose to connect the two parts of the trap? Lots of duct tape on the part attached to the hive, then just slip the other part on with the hose attached to the trap.

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