Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Advice help

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Highland county Ohio
    Posts
    8

    Default Advice help

    To all the veteran bee keepers or anyone with a idea. I have a hive that was 8 years of neglect consisted of 2 deeps 3 mediums and plenty of bees here the thing I'm trying to get new boxes on these bees all new they have a mess of comb honey brood rotten frames and so on how do I get these bees with the queen to move down to a new deep so I can start fresh with this hive if they will not leave the existing brood. I cannot move any frames down because of them being so rotten and fragile The set up now consist of new deep/ old deep and two mediums that is how it is put together from bottom to top now. Any ideas info is greatly appreciated

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,807

    Default Re: Advice help

    Do you know where the brood is, which box? Do you have any other hives.?

    Any box that does not have brood you can just set aside and the bees will go back to the main hive. If more than one box has brood you can split with these boxes on the bottom. Next year, spring, you pull them out because they will be empty. Some have used a thin spacer and a piano wire to slice the burr comb between boxes. A little smoke might drive the queen down so she doesn't get hurt while you are slowly slicing.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Orinda, California, USA
    Posts
    99

    Default Re: Advice help

    Well I have actually done this sort of thing a few times. It is kind of like a cut out from a building. You pretty much have to cut the thing apart. Take all the combs that have just honey that is capped and put it in one bucket. -You can crush and strain that and use the honey. Then take any combs that have nice brood on them and cut them into large rectangles that fit inside a new regular frame- just the frame - no foundation. Hold them in place with elastic bands. You can put two or three big pieces in there if need be. Put all these brood or egg frames in your new hive body along with some other foundation frames to fill out the body. Put all the other junky honey and nectar goo in the bottom box in a pile on the bottom board. The nurse bees and queen will go up to the brood frames you have prepared and the other bees will clean up all the gooey mess and place it in good orderly frames as they need it near the brood. Those frames with the elastic bands will be repaired and although a bit wonky will still work fine for raising brood.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Crenshaw County, Alabama
    Posts
    2,001

    Default Re: Advice help

    Country, I'm no veteran beek, but in my mind I don't think you're going to get the bees to desert the brood...they tend to be more loyal to the brood than to the queen.

    The first thing that comes to my mind is a cut out....cut the deep open, remove the comb a piece at a time, reinstall the comb in new frames using rubber bands to hold the comb in place...carefully searching for the queen the entire time. This can be tedious but is definitely doable.

    You state that the setup now includes a new deep....did you manage to replace one of the old deeps? If you could get them to draw new comb and allow the queen to move into that box and start laying you could put a queen excluder between her and the old deep. This would allow the brood in the old box to still be taken care of by the nurse bees and eventually emerge while keeping the queen from going back into the old box.

    Anyhow, that's a couple of thoughts from my newbee mind.

    Best wishes!
    Ed

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Highland county Ohio
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Advice help

    Ace the brood is now in the second brood box which is the original there is a new box we have put under it so it goes starting from the bottom = new deep /original brood box /then original mediums yes there is two other new packages in the same area . enchant and Ed this is what I was wondering if I would have to treat it like a cut out just really wasn't well oh my what a mess it is I'm going to pray I don't have to go this route it will be a long day lol if so but I didn't know if maybe the queen would move down and start laying in the new box or not

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,852

    Default Re: Advice help

    Here is an easy way I think. Do a cut out to rubber band all the brood combs onto the new frames.
    Transfer these new frames into the bottom new box. Don't forget the queen too. Move her to the bottom
    box with the broods. You can salvage anything that is usable in the mediums also. Move the combs and honey
    to another new medium if the frames are usable. The whole process is to see if anything can be salvage or not.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,807

    Default Re: Advice help

    Well it may be me but I wouldn't mess with it. I wouldn't have put a new box under it either. If the original boxes are rotten and can't support weight I would have made a support stand to hold new boxes on top of this hive and when the bees moved up I would be pulling the lower boxes out one at a time.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pueblo, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    698

    Default Re: Advice help

    I picked up an abandoned hive last year that had been left alone for 3 years. The people had used 3 - 10 frame deeps to house the hive and had only put at most 8 frames per box, top box had 6 frames, none spaced reasonably. Same issues you have, so I took the hive apart, cut out all the crazy comb from the top box (salvaged 3 frames) and set it aside. The queen and brood were in the middle box (which is pretty typical for my hives in early spring), put down a new bottom board and put that box on the bottom board. Then I took the bottom box, cut out what I had to and salvaged 6 frames, replaced all the salvaged/fixed frames into this box and added a frame of foundation (to make 10 frames) and put it on top of the bottom brood box. Next spring when they have moved up to the second brood box late winter I'll reverse and fix the bottom box OR more likely, when the queen is laying in the 2nd deep and I can keep her there I will remove and fix the bottom box. I've cut out much ugly comb from hives I've recovered and have rolled queens in the process. It's harder to do a cutout from a hive than it is to cut a hive out from a structure.
    Zone 5a @ 4700 ft. High Desert
    Facebook

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Belpre,Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,315

    Default Re: Advice help

    I picked up a hive that was in an old rotted box several years ago, the frames and combs were so bad that they could not be salvaged. This was a small cluster so I placed a new box with foundation above this hive to let them build up their numbers and build comb in the new box during the spring flow. I let them winter over and the following spring I smoked the entrance heavily to drive the queen up into the new upper box at which time I promptly removed the new box and set it on a bottom board, then I set another new box with foundation frames above the queens new home. The rotted mess was then burned.
    Bill...in Southeast Ohio

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Highland county Ohio
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Advice help

    Thanks to all for the help very much appreciated now just ponder what to do lol thanks again

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,341

    Default Re: Advice help

    If it's all crosscombed and if you want to do a cutout, just flip each box upside down and cut around the outside edge. Then lift off the box and you can get to the comb to do your cutout.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Crenshaw County, Alabama
    Posts
    2,001

    Default Re: Advice help

    That makes good sense...and if two boxes are "stuck" together use piano wire or a quitar string slipped between them to cut them apart (never tried it but an idea I picked up along my newbee journey )

    Ed

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,852

    Default Re: Advice help

    I think the fishing line or the frame wires also can be use to cut the 2 box of
    combs that stuck together.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,807

    Default Re: Advice help

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    If it's all crosscombed and if you want to do a cutout, just flip each box upside down and cut around the outside edge. Then lift off the box and you can get to the comb to do your cutout.
    Michael, even though my frames are not cross connected (I use foundation) the top bars are so propolized in that I have to work to break them free of the box. I am not sure how the inverting process would work for me.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,341

    Default Re: Advice help

    Inverting is irrelevant if they are not crosscombed. However, if you can't get them to break loose at the frame rests, you might cut a couple of two by fours 14 1/4" or so and put them under the end bars, one on each end. and push down on the box while prying up on the ends of the top bars (a hooked hive tool works best for this.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,807

    Default Re: Advice help

    What has worked so far is using the bent end of the hive to and using it a lever to separate the frames one at a time to break the propolise from the end of the top bar. This would not be good for frames that are all crosscombed together.

    Maybe doing as you say invert the box on a small spacer then put the 2x4's over the end bars and tapping them with a hammer would break the propolise free without destroying the comb.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Panama City, Florida, USA
    Posts
    591

    Default Re: Advice help

    Put a box of drawn comb or foundation in the bottom with one frame of uncapped brood. Wait just a little while and remove the top boxes, see if the queen came down to find the intruder queen. If so, add a queen excluder to keep her down in the lower box. After the brood emerges from the upper boxes the bees will load it up with honey. Remove and crush and strain.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads