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  1. #41
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Ban Bee Poison 2,500,000 have signed already!

    Vinegar has a MSDS sheet. You can read the whole document here:
    http://images.pcmac.org/Uploads/Onsl...ts/Vinegar.pdf

    Part of that MSDS sheet says:
    V. HEALTH HAZARD INFORMATION

    SKIN CONTACT: Contact may cause mild injury and burns from vinegars of 11% acetic acid and greater. Dilute solutions may cause dermatitis in some individuals.

    EYE CONTACT: May cause severe burns and permanent corneal injury from concentrated vinegars. May be followed by blindness. High vapor concentrations may result in conjunctivitis.

    INGESTION: Concentrated vinegars may cause pain, irritation and burns in mouth, gullet and stomach.

    .....

    SPECIAL FIRE FIGHTING PROCEDURES: Water may be used to dilute spills and reduce flammability.
    UNUSUAL FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS: Toxic gasses and vapors may be released in a fire involving concentrated vinegar.



    I hope you don't mind if I just stick to ranch salad dressing!
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    havana fl
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    Default Re: Ban Bee Poison 2,500,000 have signed already!

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    Kumar did a great job on 2.5 acres.... now he needs to step up 2500 acres of soybeans.
    It's scalable Wonder how the Amish do it? [/QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    It's gonna take more than his communities night soil to fertilize that... and just wait till those bean beetles hit.... guess we need about 1000 kumars per farm.....
    Should solve the unemployment problem.
    I知 really not that serious

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    havana fl
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    Default Re: Ban Bee Poison 2,500,000 have signed already!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Vinegar has a MSDS sheet. You can read the whole document here:
    http://images.pcmac.org/Uploads/Onsl...ts/Vinegar.pdf

    Part of that MSDS sheet says:




    I hope you don't mind if I just stick to ranch salad dressing!
    Ranch dressing contains vinegar. Store bought vinegar is at 5% all the references stated are concentrated. Some folks use vinegar in bee feed don't know anyone using round up in their bee feed.
    I知 really not that serious

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    4,932

    Default Re: Ban Bee Poison 2,500,000 have signed already!

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    FGMO isn't a pesticide....
    it depends who you ask and on what the definition of 'is' is.

    here's another one:

    'synthesized'

    from miriam-webster:

    "1.Make (something) by synthesis, esp. chemically.
    2.Combine (a number of things) into a coherent whole."

    technically everything we eat including honey is synthesized, either by nature or by humans (but aren't humans part of nature?)

    an atom doesn't care how it finds it's way into a molecule, nor does any target mind how that molecule found itself interacting with it.

    bee hive biochemistry is best left to nature, but bee husbandry is a human pursuit into nature.

    we introduce our hands, we remove resources, we manipulate the cavitiy size, we direct comb building.

    the informed use of substances can aid the beekeeper in husbandry, and vice versa.
    Last edited by squarepeg; 04-21-2013 at 04:48 PM. Reason: sp
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  5. #45
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    Apr 2005
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    havana fl
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    Default Re: Ban Bee Poison 2,500,000 have signed already!

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    it depends who you ask and on what the definition of 'is' is.
    O.K. So FGMO was not 'synthesized' as a pesticide however it is used as one but is not Classified as one.
    I知 really not that serious

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Ban Bee Poison 2,500,000 have signed already!

    it's only semantics mac.

    miriam-webster on 'pesticide':

    "A substance used for destroying insects or other organisms harmful to cultivated plants or to animals."

    not sure if fmgo 'destroys' mites, does it?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  7. #47
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    Cool Re: Ban Bee Poison 2,500,000 have signed already!

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    it's only semantics mac.

    miriam-webster on 'pesticide':

    "A substance used for destroying insects or other organisms harmful to cultivated plants or to animals."

    not sure if fmgo 'destroys' mites, does it?
    As I stated above it is used as one but is not classified as one. You can use a hammer to kill insects but I doubt anyone would call it an insecticide. Would you? And what痴 your point anyway. You seem to beeeee tilting at windmills.
    I知 really not that serious

  8. #48
    Join Date
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Ban Bee Poison 2,500,000 have signed already!

    no big deal mac, i guess i was just reinforcing what i had already pointed out that it seems arbitrary to me to look at some 'chemicals' as good and others as bad. whether 'synthesized' or not, it makes more sense to look at risks/benefits instead. sorry for getting repetitive.

    "and that's all i have to say about that" forest, forest gump
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Ban Bee Poison 2,500,000 have signed already!

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    You can use a hammer to kill insects but I doubt anyone would call it an insecticide.
    Well, you are not using a hammer. You are using mineral oil, formulated from petroleum distillates, and applied with a fogger, in an attempt to kill varroa. And if you apply too much, you will also kill the bees as well. How can that not be called an insecticide?

    If you want to see it in print, check out this label for mineral oil:

    http://www.kellysolutions.com/erenew...2_29_27_PM.pdf

    A part of the label is reproduced here. Note the only active ingredient is "Mineral Oil" and comprises 98.8% of the product:
    Lesco Horticultural Oil Insecticide

    ACTIVE INGREDIENTS: Mineral Oil* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 98.80%
    Pests Controlled

    This product controls listed mite and insect pests in the egg stage, including: spider mites, eriophyid mites, armored scales, soft scales, mealybugs, psyllids, whiteflies, aphids, leafrollers, leaftiers, webworms, cankerworms, plant bugs, leafhoppers, and adelgids. This product will also kill other immature forms if the spray covers the insect.
    Of course, the label does not list specifically varroa mites as a target pest.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    You seem to beeeee tilting at windmills.
    You claim that mineral oil applied to kill mites is not an insecticide. What then, in your view, is it called? Salad dressing? Who is really tilting at windmills here?



    .
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 04-22-2013 at 07:32 AM.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  10. #50
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    havana fl
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    Default Re: Ban Bee Poison 2,500,000 have signed already!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Well, you are not using a hammer.
    What you supplied IS an insectcide it is not FGMO Apples and oranges
    Cosmetics
    Mineral oil is a common ingredient in baby lotions, cold creams, ointments and cosmetics. It is a lightweight inexpensive oil that is odorless and tasteless. It can be used on eyelashes to prevent brittleness and breaking and, in cold cream, is also used to remove creme make-up and temporary tattoos. One of the common concerns regarding the use of mineral oil is its presence on several lists of comedogenic substances. These lists of comedogenic substances were developed many years ago and are frequently quoted in the dermatological literature.
    A study reported in the Journal of Cosmetic Dermatology (2005) found that the type of highly refined and purified mineral oil found in cosmetic and skincare products is noncomedogenic (does not clog pores).[7] it is occasionally used in the food industry, particularly for candy. In this application, it is typically used for the glossy effect it produces, and to prevent the candy pieces from adhering to each other. It has been discouraged for use in children's foods,[13] though it is still found in many candies, including Swedish Fish.[14] The use of food grade mineral oil is self-limiting because of its laxative effect. The maximum daily intake is calculated to be about 100 mg, of which some 80 mg are contributed from its use on machines in the baking industry.[15]
    It is sometimes used as a lubricant in enema preparations, because most of the ingested material is excreted in the stool rather than being absorbed by the body.[15]
    I知 really not that serious

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