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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    grand rapids, michigan
    Posts
    316

    Default Advice on adding 2nd deep

    When adding a 2nd deep with all new wax foundation is it a good idea to move a couple frames of drawn comb from the bottom to the top deep? How about a frame or two of pollen and/or nectar or capped honey? Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,431

    Default Re: Advice on adding 2nd deep

    In general in is good to bait the 2nd deep box with a few (like 2) frames. I move 2 frames of brood from the center of the brood nest and center it in the top box. I put the new foundation in at positions 2 & 9 of the bottom deep - consolidating all the other frames (and the brood nest).

    I don't add the second deep until all of the frames in the bottom box are drawn and the bees are using and/or covering 8 of 10 frames (80%)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Cache, Utah, USA
    Posts
    62

    Default Re: Advice on adding 2nd deep

    What is the reason for putting the foundation in position 2 & 9 versus 1 & 10? It would seem that 1 & 10 would already have some comb built but is not be as heavily utilized. In typing this perhaps I have answered my own question. 2 & 9 would gather more attention than 1 & 10 and therefore contribute the most new space. I'm brand new to this so pardon my questions. Am I on the right track?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    3,287

    Default Re: Advice on adding 2nd deep

    You are on the right track. Assuming all 10 frames are drawn, you'll move 2 brood frames up to the new box and slide all the frames toward the center of the lower box, keeping all the remaining brood frames consolidated in the lower box. You then slide the two outside frames (which are most likely just stores) to the sides leaving gaps at the 2 & 9 positions. Insert foundation and you have drawn comb on each side for guides and, as you mentioned, there will be more interest in drawing it out because it will be closer to the brood area. The outside positions are often neglected and the bees are slow to draw out those frames.
    To everything there is a season....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Cache, Utah, USA
    Posts
    62

    Default Re: Advice on adding 2nd deep

    Of course acting like I understand and doing it are 2 different things. I opened my 1week old, hived swarm last night and decided to add another deep full of foundation since I had met the 80% drawn out mark(I started with 5 frames of old comb). I did not think until I was 5 miles away that I should have done what we have been discussing. all my frames in the first deep had ample nectar/sugarwater stores since I have been feeding them a qt./day for the last week. Now I worry about 1. How soon they will start utilizing the upper deep. 2. The queen not having enought room to lay since they mostly filled the first deep. I saw one frame with about 10% of it filled with eggs. No larvae I could see.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Cache, Utah, USA
    Posts
    62

    Default Re: Advice on adding 2nd deep

    Snuck one little peek tonight.only removed inner cover and looked between frames. Very little activity in the sencond deep. A little concerned.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    3,287

    Default Re: Advice on adding 2nd deep

    Unless you had an extremely large swarm, 1 week is way too early to add a second deep. The queen should have at least a few empty frames to lay eggs in to get the colony brood established. If it's packed with nectar or syrup you may want to hold off on feeding for a while and let them clear out some cells for brood. I would suggest that you remove the 2nd deep with foundation and keep them in a single deep for a while. That's too much area for them to guard and maintain. In about a month when you have new brood emerging you can monitor their progress and decide what to do at that point. Adding another box at the 80% target you are referring to is based on an established colony with several frames of brood, your bees will need a little more time to reach that stage.
    To everything there is a season....

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    821

    Default Re: Advice on adding 2nd deep

    In nature bees build combs from the top down, not up. If you are not sure what to do, put a box with foundation under the brood box. The warm air will stay in the brood and as soon as they need more space the bees going down. No need placing a bait frame of brood down or anything else. The girls know what to do.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,415

    Default Re: Advice on adding 2nd deep

    You need to understand the dynamics of a hive when adding space. People say add a box when they have 7-9 frames drawn out but this means nothing if you have little capped brood ready to hatch. It especially holds true when feeding bees and stimulating wax drawing. You need 6-8 frames of brood, with 4-5 frames of it being capped brood before considering adding another box.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    grand rapids, michigan
    Posts
    316

    Default Re: Advice on adding 2nd deep

    Thanks JRG. Makes sense.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    grand rapids, michigan
    Posts
    316

    Default Re: Advice on adding 2nd deep

    Axtman your advice sounds logical. I assjme you are doing that. Is placing the 2nd deep below the 1st common practice?

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