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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,853

    Default Re: European Foulbrood: Your experience with Tylan?

    Are EFB combs infectious? What should be done with EFB die outs? I have a stack sitting on top of an EFB hive that recovered strongly with Terramycin treatment. Only about 25% of treated hives recovered, the rest died over winter with plenty of stores. Does extracting EFB brood chambers spread
    EFB through to other equipment during the extracting process? Is EFB spread through extracting supers?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Pocahontas, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: European Foulbrood: Your experience with Tylan?

    Peter: The law in Illinois is to burn all hives with AFB, so surely I wouldn't recommend a shook swarm - and thinking about it, I don't see why bees couldn't carry AFB with them when shaking onto new frames. AFB is a spore-forming bacterium - its in their food. The nurse bees are carrying food, so why wouldn't they be holding microscopic spores in the food they're carrying when they are randomly shaken? You can't tell the bees to "stop carrying their food" - "Bees, put down your food, I'll be shaking you down in about 5 minutes." Of course, you're shaking them onto foundation, so where will they put that food? No where to store it on foundation. Do they keep it in their crop until the foundation is drawn? Or do they consume it in the process of creating wax? Where do the spores go in the live bee? Are the spores excreted? Where do nurse bees excrete - they can't fly.

    Mark: "What kind of training does IL provide their Inspectors? Does IL have a list of standard recommendations to address diseases and pests?"
    Illinois hires beekeepers to be inspectors - there are 8 of us. We're hired based on beekeeping experience, recommendation, how well we get along with our beekeeping community, resume, map, paperwork and people skills, and what we demonstrate for our beekeeping knowledge base. When we're hired, we work along side an experienced apiary inspector until that inspector feels we're ready to go out on our own.

    As far as a list of standard recommendations, we need to be more "fluid" than that, because there are few "silver bullets" in beekeeping. Science changes everyday with the findings of studies. Inspectors try to help each other by sharing what the latest "understanding" of a pest or disease is, based on reading studies, websites, books, magazine articles, and field observations.

    Inspecting bees is beekeeping in hyper-mode. You see every kind of problem, in every place. Somethings you see defy what you "know" and what you've learned. You see contradictions in the field. But mostly, you see a lot of cause and effect. Our job is to be helpful - identify problems and recommend a variety of legal treatments.

    The training is ongoing and constant, because there are always new findings in beekeeping -and there so many approaches, and combinations of approaches. Its always a race to absorb and process information and observation, to get to the bottom of an issue and find the "number one" recommendation. That number one recommendation can be elusive at times. This is why I'm here on beesource, its a good place to stir up every single possibility that exists. I'm not satisfied with my current recommendation for EFB, because it returns year after year to some apiaries, and doesn't others. Some people use Tylan, some use Tetra-B. Some use Terramycin - but did they use enough - or do enough treatments? Nobody has done the shook swarm method in my area. Nobody wants to sacrifice the drawn comb. But now I'm going to recommend it in conjunction with Terramycin, because that 10 year old study had really good success rates.

    Deknow: I'm looking for studies that are solid. New does not mean solid. I haven't yet found a study that shows me another legal method that proved effective, especially one that I can recommend in the field. There are some very interesting studies out there. Michael Bush has some links on here to a study about the Lactic Acid Bacterial balance in the honey bee crop, and how this complex balance has potentially been thrown off by antibiotic treatment of foulbrood. If I lived in a state where it was legal to play with diseases in my apiary, maybe I would consider conducting experiments of my own. But in Illinois, what you legally may and may not use inside a hive as a treatment for pests/diseases is very regimented. But I can ask you what your experience is, and hopefully learn something.

    Odfrank: This quote from a publication on the University of Illinois Extension website sums up what I experience to be true: "The bacteria that causes EFB does not produce spores, but combs contaminated with the bacteria can still reinfect honey bees in subsequent years." http://www.extension.org/pages/23693...oney-bee-brood

    How long before you can use comb from an EFB hive? This I don't know. Anybody? I know there are treatment free beekeepers who don't worry about EFB staying in the comb - and logically, how could it? How could a bacteria survive in a wax/propollis environment, when propollis has antibiotic properties? But my observation was that it can remain viable in comb for a few years. I haven't found an explanation for it. I'm looking for one.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    82

    Default Re: European Foulbrood: Your experience with Tylan?

    May I suggest the website NYBeeWellness.org, http://nybeewellness.org/ ? Funded by the USDA and the Empire State Honey Producers.
    The site relies heavily on the Penn State Field Guide (PDF), eXtension.org, and the Ontario Beekeepers. All the links are there for beekeepers to get a start on identifying honeybee disease.
    In New York, bee inspectors are not available for ~90% of beekeepers, so they need to be self reliant: read the suggested material on the website, send samples (links provided), ask a second opinion, etc.
    The eXtension.org link provides up to date, science based info--- you can even send them a question, and links to other sites such as BeeInformed.org.
    Remember: Every beekeeper should know their mite count, it is quick and easy to-- see NYBeeWellness.org

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Pocahontas, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: European Foulbrood: Your experience with Tylan?

    That's a great website, and great what you're doing. Thank you so much for sending the link.

    I hadn't realized that all of the extensions were linked together online, and I hadn't been to that chronological list of studies until now. So helpful! So cool.

    For the record, the more I've read, and the more people I've talked to this week, I still think that for beekeepers who have time, the link I listed a couple days ago is the clearest way towards eliminating EFB: terramycin and shook swarm combination. Other people I've talked to who don't have time or resources for shook swarm say they just use terramycin.

    It does seem like time for some fresh studies on EFB. Are there strains that are resistant to terramycin? How wide spread and where? This is the study I'm looking for now.

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