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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Clay Count, Missouri, USA
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    819

    Default Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    I store extra boxes and brood frames in my garage. I use moth crystals for stored brood and honey super frames. I also freeze brood frames before storing them. Two questions?

    1. Do I really need to use crystals to store honey supers knowing the moths prefer brood frames and I store frames in the garage?

    2. If I get a swarm and all my equipment is stored with moth crystals, what is the least time I should air the equipment out before using it for a swarm?
    Try living life with the attitude it's not about what you want to do but what you should do!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pinellass County, Florida
    Posts
    1,114

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    Do I really need to use crystals to store honey supers
    NO
    If you are using reg. moth crystals that you put n closets
    I'd check the contents,There is a specific type(s) for bees
    you could have messed up
    Sorry I'm having a brain lapse or I could name the product

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Princeton, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    164

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    MDS,
    I've wondered the same thing as you. I went ahead and just uncovered my supers a week or two ago and am going to keep an eye on them. I'm not terribly worried about moths just yet, especially as the smell from the moth crystals is still in the air. You do need to use something to protect honey supers though, we had several ruined a couple of years ago. We also accidentally ruined some ourselves by using moth balls instead of moth crystals. Never use moth balls.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    459

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    I think that moth crystal and moth balls contain one of two active 'ingredients.' The first is naphthalene, which has an oil-like odor with a sweetness to it, and the second is p-dichlorobenzene (a.k.a. 1,4-dichlorobenzene), which has a sweeter smell, with a oil-like underlying odor (it's used in men's restrooms to mask some odors on wall-mounted fixtures). I do not know which of these is the least objectionable for use with comb, perhaps someone can jump in on that.

    The use of crystals doesn't always mean that you're using the least objectionable of the two substances, nor does the use of mothballs. You need to read the label.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    Paradichlorobenzene (PDB) is the approved compound.
    In my experience, frames with comb that has only been used for honey (no brood) can be stored without any chemicals. I put down a pair of concrete blocks, put a metal queen excluder on them, then stack the supers on it and place another excuder on the top. The metal excluders keep mice from building nests in the stack. I place my stacks in a barn where they get sunlight but stay dry.
    I store my brood comb on my hives…but am sure you can use PDB to keep them as well.
    I would air them out for at least three or four days before using.
    All…just my opinion.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    watertown,wi.,USA
    Posts
    479

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    MDS- I stacked and sealed all of my extracted honey supers. I also added Paramoth(granulated crystals) on a small paper plate and then sealed them up and placed them in my shed. Which I kept an eye on for mice over the winter. I am currently "airing" my frames out now(3 days so far) and the smell is going away. I was told to air them out for about a week. juzzer

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Clay Count, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    819

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    I appreciate the replies. Appears I should air out some equipment prior to swarm season just in case I need it. The only time, so far that I have had moth issue is when a hive was weak. I have had not issue while the equipment was stored in the garage, put ordered and used moth crystals from a bee equipment supply just in case.
    Try living life with the attitude it's not about what you want to do but what you should do!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,742

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    >1. Do I really need to use crystals to store honey supers knowing the moths prefer brood frames and I store frames in the garage?

    I would put them where they will freeze. Hard. NOT the garage, where they might not freeze as hard. IF you use crystals use the "approved" carcinogen, PDB not the naphthalene. But the wax moths in MO died last fall and won't be back until at least June and the boxes should be on the hives by then...

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beeswaxmoths.htm

    >2. If I get a swarm and all my equipment is stored with moth crystals, what is the least time I should air the equipment out before using it for a swarm?

    PDB is lipophilic. It loves wax. It will never completely dissapate... but it will MOSTLY dissipate in a few days... not soon enough to use for a swarm...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    459

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    >1. Do I really need to use crystals to store honey supers knowing the moths prefer brood frames and I store frames in the garage?

    I would put them where they will freeze. Hard. NOT the garage, where they might not freeze as hard. IF you use crystals use the "approved" carcinogen, PDB not the naphthalene. But the wax moths in MO died last fall and won't be back until at least June and the boxes should be on the hives by then...

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beeswaxmoths.htm

    >2. If I get a swarm and all my equipment is stored with moth crystals, what is the least time I should air the equipment out before using it for a swarm?

    PDB is lipophilic. It loves wax. It will never completely dissapate... but it will MOSTLY dissipate in a few days... not soon enough to use for a swarm...
    Agreed. It can be a carcinogen (exposure required, of course), and I've seen it show up in paraffin samples months after exposure. Granted that paraffin isn't identical to beeswax, but it is more than close enough in behavior to behave similarly.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Denton County, Texas, USA
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    So I did not see a full answer to how long to air out frames... I have some unused frames that I packed with two paradichlorobenzene moth balls to keep them safe until spring. Now I need two of the frames. They have only been stored for two weeks. I pulled out the two frames and I do not smell the PDB at all. Would airing them for a two or three hours be enough time?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    661

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    In bee school we were told to stack the boxes with the frames inside using spacers between the boxes to let in light and air, which wax moths don't like. There is supposed to be a cover on the top box to keep out the rain. If kept outside they will freeze. All of the moth type poisons leave a permanent residue in the wax.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Denton County, Texas, USA
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    So you are saying my frames are destroyed?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,742

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    >So you are saying my frames are destroyed?

    No. You used PDB. I wouldn't use it, but that is the "approved" product. They are not "destroyed". How long they need to air out will depend on the temperatures. The PDB needs to evaporate and that will happen much quicker when they are warmer than when they are colder. I would imagine at 80 F it would happen at least 100 times faster than at 0 F. If you can't smell it it's probably not going to do too much harm.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Denton County, Texas, USA
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    Ok. Thank you. I will try to find a better way to protect my equipment. I wonder if I kept them in a cedar chest/box, if that would keep the moths out? I will also look for BT. I do not see any research on the toxicity of PDB to bees. It may not be ideal, but maybe it is not harmful to them?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Clackamas Oregon
    Posts
    781

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    I have been having trouble with wax moths this year. Left a frame in the garage and it was destroyed in no time at all. I opened up a dead out last week and had some frames that had some starting. I removed the bad areas, (gave the worms to the fish) and sprayed the frames with BT. The boxes I stored in the shed with the bottoms facing the windows have had no issues yet.
    Used to be somebody pushing BT on this forum all the time, wonder what happened to them.
    “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might learn to pick ourselves up” Alfred Pennyworth Batman Begins (2005)

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Issaquah,WA,USA
    Posts
    2,425

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    I would soak them in water to help get the chemicals out. Might even use something to nuetralize the chemicals you put into your wax. There are approved moth chemicals. also freezing helps kills the eggs and worms before they hatch. I freeze all frames and boxes that come out of deadouts and supers at least once a season. rotate them into your freeze if you have to. If you live in a freezing climate then make sure they freeze in the winter.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,742

    Default Re: Airing Out Frames and Boxes after Moth Treatment

    >I wonder if I kept them in a cedar chest/box, if that would keep the moths out?

    No. It won't. I have cedar supers. It makes no difference to the wax moths.

    > I will also look for BT.

    The Xentari I have bought on Amazon. The Certan I've bought at www.beeworks.com

    >I do not see any research on the toxicity of PDB to bees. It may not be ideal, but maybe it is not harmful to them?

    At low levels it does not appear to significantly harm them. That's part of why it is approved for that use...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

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