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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    3,910

    Default Bleach won't kill AFB - Proof?

    Is there scientific proof that bleach won't kill AFB spores?

    I'm not arguing this point I'm just asking the question - is this just conventional wisdom or has someone somewhere actually done scientific research that shows that there is no practical way to sanitize used equipment?

    The reason I ask is that after winter losses I found myself with an excess of comb for the first time ever, and have been taking action to carefully store it away long term. Some of it I was going to toss (none is very old) because I just didn't like it's looks, but as an experiment I put some in a big (clean) trash can with a gallon of clorox and enough water to cover for a few days - you have to weigh it down a lot by the way - and it looks great coming out. I've never had AFB, and since comb is hard come by - I'm gonnna dry it out good and carefully put a little of it in a test hive just to see what the bees think.

    I know you can't see disease pathogens, but conventional wisdom in swimming pool maintenance is that a good strong chlorine shock is the nuclear option - it kills everything. And we all know for a fact that bees don't mind chlorinated pool water.
    since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Hartford County, CT
    Posts
    38

    Default Re: Bleach won't kill AFB - Proof?

    Doesn't AFB become lodged inside the wax? It seems you would only be able to treat the surface of the comb as the bleach solution isn't going to penetrate wax.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Gage County, Nebraska, USA
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Bleach won't kill AFB - Proof?

    I'm not sure if this helps or not, but I thought I would throw it out there.

    I recently had the opportunity to visit with a super wicked smart scientist/biologist that developed a safe, effective disinfectent. Let's call him Jim; Jim said that the problem with conventional sanitizers is that eventually the germs will develop a tolerance and become immune. Plus some disinfectents are specific to mold, bacteria, or virus' and what kills one may not kill another. This is where Jim's product comes in...it mechanically (on an atomic level) destroys the cell walls of the nasties leaving no chance of survial. When the sanitizer is exposed to air, sunlight and/or heat it turns to water and evaporates - no residual chemicals left behind. Sounds dangerous? Its not, its safer than toothpaste! We've used it around the house and on some woodenware with great success, check it out at http://www.bio-intervention.com/elec...ide/index.html

    - No, my name isnt Jim and I am in no way affiliated with the company; I just thougt it was cool information that may help someone.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    3,910

    Default Re: Bleach won't kill AFB - Proof?

    Not at all the point in either case. The Question is - Can anyone site scientific research showing that equipment containing AFB spores can not be sanitized by full immersion in a strong bleach solution?

    The word on the street - and the law in TN, and probably some other states - says "No, only burning the equipment will eliminate the infectious material."

    I'm asking if this is true fact based on scientific research or not.
    since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    lafargeville ny usa
    Posts
    504

    Default Re: Bleach won't kill AFB - Proof?

    hello..my day job is a dairy equipment dealer, i run into sanitiseing questions a lot. chlorine from chlorox is a surface sanitiser, it kills bacteria on the surface only ,it does not penetrate so it will kill only on clean hard surfaces only such as stainless steel, glass, plastic or new shiny metal. it only takes a few parts per million of free chlorine to be effective so adding a lot more is useless. something like a cup full in 30 gallons is plenty. chlorox brand bleach will list the diloution rates for dairy and resterant use. store brands are exactly the same stuff but may not show this on the label. technicaly according to our friends in washington you can not use it for this use unless it is on the label ,the cheaper store brand is the exact same stuff...as a surface sanitiser the kill of bacteria drops to 50% in about an hour, if you are sanitiseing more than 1/2 hour before use you are really wasteing your time. if you are soaking in high,"hot" soloutins you are soaking in a caustic mix that corodes material and may leave residue, [it only takes a few parts per million of free chlorine], soap or detergent would cause less damage and would work a lot better, do not forget to rinse the soap washed surfaces. no need to rinse off chlorox the water drys and the chlorine is gone thru vapor quickly...... useing chlorine to penetrate and kill bacteria in wax or wood will not work. it might help on clean wax free plastic some.
    Last edited by mathesonequip; 04-08-2013 at 09:51 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Knox, Pa. USA
    Posts
    1,244

    Default Re: Bleach won't kill AFB - Proof?

    I am not a super smart guy, but I have done extensive research on the subject. American foul brood (AFB) AKA Paenibacilluc Larvac Is a gram positive spore forming Bacterium. which means it reproduces by way of spores. the problem wit it is the live spores remain within the carcass of dead brood within the cells of the comb. If you have ever dealt with AFB you will know how difficult it is to remove the gooey remains. even the bees find it imposable. any remaining spores in the cell from where a carcass was removed has now been sealed in with a fresh layer of wax. the problem lies here. the wax not only seals the spores from contact with the bees, it also seals them from contact with bleach. As does propolis, and the un-removed remains of dead larva. although hive bodies may be sanitized by thoroughly scraping, and washing with bleach, any wax products associated with AFB should be destroyed. With burning being best choice.

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