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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    LaGrange; Oldham County; Kentucky
    Posts
    158

    Default Split question, how long "do not disturb?"

    Today, here in Kentucky, we had an awesome 72 degree day, full sun, slight breeze. Just a lovely day! A friend has two booming hives we planned to take three splits from, and we did. Two for her, and one for me, for helping and giving her some extra frames and foundation! Yes, a great trade! My four frames, including varying stages of brood appropriate for rearing a queen, went into a five frame nuc. Entrance stuffed, lid ratcheted down, we headed to the orchard where my other hive is. About 15 miles or so away so no worry about drifting. I added sugar water via top feeder and let them be.

    1: Question is, I meant to add a fifth empty frame, and forgot. During the ride, the four frames may have shifted...not sure. How worried should I be about not having the fifth frame in there? Should I throw it in tomorrow, or would it be better not to bother them? I didn't know if them building in the extra space would be worse or if opening a recent split would be worse?

    2: about how long would you all wait to move the frames into a 10 frame deep? Obviously after the new queen hatches and mates, but what do you typically do?

    I feel like I'm over analyzing sometimes but I like to have experienced advice/reassurance!

    Thank you all......

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    3,995

    Default Re: Split question, how long "do not disturb?"

    I would go ahead and add that frame. This time of year they can build comb pretty fast. If all goes well they could need room pretty soon once they are queen right. Have some equipment ready for sure.
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Big Stone Gap, VA
    Posts
    949

    Default Re: Split question, how long "do not disturb?"

    Quote Originally Posted by MelanieWoosley View Post
    1: Question is, I meant to add a fifth empty frame, and forgot. During the ride, the four frames may have shifted...not sure. How worried should I be about not having the fifth frame in there? Should I throw it in tomorrow, or would it be better not to bother them? I didn't know if them building in the extra space would be worse or if opening a recent split would be worse?

    2: about how long would you all wait to move the frames into a 10 frame deep? Obviously after the new queen hatches and mates, but what do you typically do?
    1. This is a very valid concern. I forgot a frame once. We had finished a successful trapout, and I forgot to put in the seventh frame in a seven frame nuc. The bees attached comb to the side of the box, where the seventh frame should have been. Since it was late in the year, I waited until the following year to fix that comb. I would add the fifth frame soon.

    2. Most of my equipment is eight frame. I follow the general principle and wait until they have four of the five frames pulled out and filled.

    Congrats on the split,

    Shane

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    LaGrange; Oldham County; Kentucky
    Posts
    158

    Default Re: Split question, how long "do not disturb?"

    Thanks y'all, my gut tells me I should fix it tomorrow but I didn't want to do anything that would tick em off either. I have plenty of equipment, thankfully! Also, my other hive is drawing comb like crazy... That's what made me leery....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Reddick, FL (Ocala)
    Posts
    126

    Default Re: Split question, how long "do not disturb?"

    You could also drop one of those drawn out frames from the stronger box into the new nuc and put the new frame into the stronger box.

    Win, win.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,642

    Default Re: Split question, how long "do not disturb?"

    Very simple, the shifting of the frame is no issue at all for now. You can straighten them out on your next
    inspection. There is no major problem when you forgot to put in the last frame either. Since there is no
    laying queen yet, you don't have to worry about them building new combs that the queen bee can lay in them.
    So time is on your side now. For better result, you can wait until they fly again to put in the 5th frame. You
    can save the new combs that they build if any for making candles or new foundation, etc. Other way is to put this
    new combs on a frame if they build and put rubber bands to secure it. The bees will secure it and continue to build out this
    frame to completion. Many you tube vids showed rubber bands on a cut out on the combs to secure them on
    a frame, alright.
    Once they are flying you can open the hive to do a hive check for queen cells and add on the last frame. For now do not
    disturb them so they can settle down.
    Why would you stuffed the entrance? So far away they cannot drift back to their own hive. Make sure the entrance is
    open with a window screen #8 wire so they can breathe too. If the entrance is shut all the way then they will die out of
    suffocation. 95F plus is really hot inside on a sunny warm day at 72F outside. This was a big mistake if you really shut
    off the entrance to not let them breathe at all.
    Also, moving to a 10 frame depends on the hive population when they have expanded enough and needed more room to
    grow on.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    LaGrange; Oldham County; Kentucky
    Posts
    158

    Default Re: Split question, how long "do not disturb?"

    Thx beepro. I covered the entrance with an old sock secured with duct tape. I have a Mountaineer SUV not an open truck bed so they were inside the truck with me. Once at the new location, they were freed and already started coming out to check out surroundings. pray for a nice healthy new queen!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,325

    Default Re: Split question, how long "do not disturb?"

    I open and work with splits as often as any other hive, sometimes more often, since they need more attention to ensure they get off to a good start.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,305

    Default Re: Split question, how long "do not disturb?"

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    For now do not disturb them so they can settle down.
    Normally I would be about not disturbing the hive but she clearly made a mistake that I would fix. I will also comment that you should never travel with a box that is not full unless you have a stop that will prevent the frames from shifting. Frames that slap around can kill bees and not likely to make them happy with bee juice left in the hive.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    LaGrange; Oldham County; Kentucky
    Posts
    158

    Default Re: Split question, how long "do not disturb?"

    Ok you all, follow up to the initial issue. I went to put the frame in that I had left out, and it would not fit! So, I scooted the four frames in snug towards the center.

    NOW my new question is this: there are a LOT of bees on these four frames. For some reason my gut says too many for this five (or four??) framed size nuc box. It seems like there are way more bees than yesterday when we pulled the split. I am wondering if the capped brood emerged since yesterday. There are four REALLY full frames of bees, they have sucked down half a jar of sugar water, and when inremoved the jar, bees boiled out like lava for a second. Should I have made two nucs of two frames each instead of one four frame nuc?? If you think i should have, is it wise to split this split that I just split? Sorry for the funny wording of that question! lol. I am worried they will be out of room when queenie hatches and they will abscond.

    Please advise! And have I told you all lately that I love you all?!?!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    LaGrange; Oldham County; Kentucky
    Posts
    158

    Default Re: Split question, how long "do not disturb?"

    By the way I don't have a nuc body to place on top, my nuc bodies are nailed to their bottoms.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    320

    Default Re: Split question, how long "do not disturb?"

    You want a "boiling over" nuc to make a queen. The extra bees ensure the queen cell is well fed, resulting in a bigger and better queen.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    3,995

    Default Re: Split question, how long "do not disturb?"

    You could upgrade them to a bigger box on either the 5th or 10th day after the split without hurting the developing queen. On the 5 th the cell will just be capped, and on the 10th the queen will be fully developed and about to emerge. Be gentle if you do.
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,642

    Default Re: Split question, how long "do not disturb?"

    Keep in mind though that the old foragers will die off too. It takes almost 2 months for the population
    to fully cycle itself from the time the queen got mated and lay to having foragers from her. You might have
    to move more nurse or broods in if the population get too low over time.
    I would leave them alone for now. And keep on monitoring to see their development. Not a big issue
    as long as you don't end up multiple queen cells that they would swarm on you. So now look for
    queen cells in 3-5 days. The bit of over crowding I think they can handle.

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