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  1. #41
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    DFW area, TX, USA
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    Thumbs Up Re: Is one hive witb AFB a death senetence to entire apiary?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Maybe your question was rhetorical? How does a hive of bees get infected from a veil? How does it get infected from a smoker or hive tool as far as that goes?
    Yes Mark, maybe it was. Its the spores that infect the next colony, as you well know

    Quote Originally Posted by challenger View Post
    -snip- I've found that many beekeepers like to "contribute" to threads by posting their approach and/or methods used to handle challenges in beekeeping using a tone of superiority if you will. I'm being hypersensitive here just to try and make my point. -snip-I may have other, "experts" look down their nose at my management methods but that seems to be more of a problem for them than it is for me.
    I apologize for sounding superior, but I assure you I did not intend to sound that way -I'm not a member of the beekeeping Taliban. After reading this was your second bout with AFB, I was looking for a commonality between the two episodes....Tools popped into my mind as a possible source of infection. Working in a hospital for 20 years makes me think of infection control more than the average Joe. YOu have my sincere best wishes as you work through this problem.

    BTW, I don't wash my tools. Only thing I do is to quarantine new colonies from take outs or swarms until they show me their brood frames are normal appearing and smell the way they should. Our colonies are all vulnerable to foul brood, nobody is exempt.
    LeeB
    I try to learn from my mistakes, and from yours when you give me a heads up :)

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    27,640

    Default Re: Is one hive witb AFB a death senetence to entire apiary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lburou View Post
    Yes Mark, maybe it was. Its the spores that infect the next colony, as you well know
    Yes Lburou, I am quite familiar w/ the manner in which spores infect a colony of bees, the number of spores necessary and the age of the larvae has to be to be susceptible to the infection. That is why I ask HOW a hive tool, or a veil, or a smoker can cause infection in another uninfected colony. It can't. I would ask Delaplane were he here. I know Apiary Inspectors who throw their hive tools on the ground and scuff them in the dirt w/ their shoes and then pick them up a scrape them w/ their pocket knife habitually. Yet they do not do the same w/ their pocket knife.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  3. #43
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    DFW area, TX, USA
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    1,100

    Default Re: Is one hive witb AFB a death senetence to entire apiary?

    Points well taken Mark

    The question then becomes: "Its 10PM, do you know where your bees have been?"
    LeeB
    I try to learn from my mistakes, and from yours when you give me a heads up :)

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Crystal Water, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    908

    Default Re: Is one hive witb AFB a death senetence to entire apiary?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    I don't know why his approach would be any different now. Conditions haven't changed much.
    I understood that some of the antibiotics sugessted don't work as well anymore?
    If this is correct Keith maybe moved on to a different treatment?

  5. #45
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tineo, Asturias, SPAIN
    Posts
    184

    Default Re: Is one hive witb AFB a death senetence to entire apiary?

    Regarding the persistence of spores in wood, I found this paper from the Journal of Applied Microbiology:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...1.01376.x/full

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Crystal Water, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    908

    Default Re: Is one hive witb AFB a death senetence to entire apiary?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Yes Lburou, I am quite familiar w/ the manner in which spores infect a colony of bees, the number of spores necessary and the age of the larvae has to be to be susceptible to the infection. That is why I ask HOW a hive tool, or a veil, or a smoker can cause infection in another uninfected colony. It can't. I would ask Delaplane were he here. I know Apiary Inspectors who throw their hive tools on the ground and scuff them in the dirt w/ their shoes and then pick them up a scrape them w/ their pocket knife habitually. Yet they do not do the same w/ their pocket knife.
    The way I read the literature tools, veils, gloves, smokers ....all can carry spores if they are contaminated with honey or wax.
    Agreed - the chances are low. We all make decisions to what level we want to take the hygiene.
    One thing which does worry me and which I see suggested in this forum often is the practice of letting "the girls" ( an dinteresting term for bees!) clean up cappings, extractors etc. It is a practice I would never alow in my beeyard as this is surely one of the best ways to spread AFB ( and a few other disease) rather efficiently if it is prevelant in the area.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    6,020

    Default Re: Is one hive witb AFB a death senetence to entire apiary?

    Thanks for the link ForrestB, I've saved it, some useful info.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  8. #48
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tineo, Asturias, SPAIN
    Posts
    184

    Default Re: Is one hive witb AFB a death senetence to entire apiary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Thanks for the link ForrestB, I've saved it, some useful info.
    My pleasure. Not really the kind of info I was looking forward to exchanging when I took up this hobby though, lol.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Crystal Water, Queensland, Australia
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    908

    Default Re: Is one hive witb AFB a death senetence to entire apiary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Thanks for the link ForrestB, I've saved it, some useful info.
    Yes, thanksForrestB - In my case burning the lot still seems to be only practical means to break the cycle as the cost of treatment of the wood seems expensive and time consuming and in all cases involves some risk to health and wellbeing.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    27,640

    Default Re: Is one hive witb AFB a death senetence to entire apiary?

    Quote Originally Posted by max2 View Post
    I understood that some of the antibiotics sugessted don't work as well anymore?
    If this is correct Keith maybe moved on to a different treatment?
    Prophylactic treatment recommendations are still the same. That hasn't changed.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  11. #51
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Hampstead, NC USA
    Posts
    608

    Default Re: Is one hive witb AFB a death senetence to entire apiary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Axtmann View Post
    IMO if bees robbed the AFB colony they spread the disease. All hives in a range from approx 3-4 km are in danger. An outbreak can come anytime, if not this year, the next year or later. As soon as there are enough spores per cell there is an AFB outbreak. I would say, the whole bee yard has now a big problem.

    There are only two ways to solve the problem; fire or radiation. Antibiotics will hide the problem but it will come back very soon even worse.
    IMO this is opinion is based on a knee jerk mentality.
    It makes the point for saving boxes at minimum, "As soon as there are enough spores per cell there is an AFB outbreak."
    So the spores in the cells are the issue? Why burn woodenware - rhetorical question.
    3-4km to me says that a hive with AFB will contaminate another apiary. This one will contaminate another and so on. Using your scenario all apiaries would be wiped out unless they are miles apart.
    Lastly who actually does a complete sanitization between each hive inspection? Simply put there is always a risk/reward for all situations that may have detrimental results. The amount of effort one puts into preventing AFB while there is no AFB outbreak present (there are AFB spores in all hives) = risk. An apiary that has a clean AFB history = reward.
    Personally I would love to be able to start a new out yard with bees in new equipment and keep it isolated and have dedicated inspection tools etc. I know this would never be practical for me. I would slip up somewhere and put other yards in peril.

  12. #52
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    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Is one hive witb AFB a death senetence to entire apiary?

    Quote Originally Posted by challenger View Post
    (there are AFB spores in all hives).
    A common misconception.

    There does not HAVE to be. The belief I have come to, is a hive with a load of AFB spores, but not "enough per cell" to become symptomatic, will gradually purge itself of those spores, via ejection of rubbish, ingesting and pooping them, feeding them to larvae in non lethal doses, etc.

    That this can happen is the only way a hive could be "cured" by antibiotics. The hive is symptomatic, so must have a high enough number of spores to become so. It is then fed antibiotics which gets rid of vegetative AFB, but by the end of treatment, if the hive does not get AFB again, it must be somehow purging the spores to lower levels so as not to become symptomatic.

    There are areas in my country where AFB has not been seen for years and migratory beekeeping is not practised. Samples from those hives can be tested and no AFB spores found. Course that doesn't mean there is not an undetected one in the hive somewhere, but likewise there is no proof there has to be, it is quite conceivable there could be hives with no spores.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

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