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  1. #161
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    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    1,920

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeslave View Post
    It's not easy to pinpoint where the source is when often these fields are hidden from view.
    but if you have the dead bees and or comb tested, then you would have some idea of what is killing them, that is not the case now nor will it be in the future unless you do your part.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  2. #162
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Skiff, Alberta, CA
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    420

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    It sounds like you know of two specific fields that have been direct seeded. Go find out what they used on those fields!

  3. #163
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Schoolcraft Mi.
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    57

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    If you're in the cornbelt sooner or later you are going to have some sort of problems from what I have seen it is when the farmer uses an airplanter and conditions are right the dust settled onto Dandelion's in adjoining fields. The dust carries the talc used to lubricat the seed picks up seed treatment. Is the farmer wrong not in my opinion. Do we need to work to solve the problem yes

  4. #164
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    4,573

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    if the farmers are planting crops that depend on pollinators i would think they would be interested in working cooperatively with the beekeepers.

    it shouldn't be that hard to locate what is being planted and when within a 2-3 mile radius of a beeyard.

    i'm with keith and the others, the farmer has every right to use his land as he wishes within the law.

    i'm with haraga and wildbranch, it looks like a good opportunity for meaningful investigation. find out what is being used, and see if it is showing up in your colonies. assuming the rules are being followed, this is the more likely path to get them modified.

    with all those losses shannon, looks like you've got everything to gain and nothing to lose. what you need is diplomacy. if i were in a similar situation i would approach the farmers with respect and civility, and involve the state apiarist.

    and, you just might end contributing valuable knowledge that will help all of us advance our understanding of what is causing some of our losses.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  5. #165
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    Sep 2011
    Location
    Skiff, Alberta, CA
    Posts
    420

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Squarepeg I agree with what you are saying. As a farmer and as a beekeeper that's what I would do.

  6. #166
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    one interesting thing that I found when researching the coated seeds, due to this thread, that I need to get addressed b/4 planting season. Last year the farmer brought up a trailer truck full of seed, with I think an auger in it to offload the seeds into the planter, they parked it right in front of my hives for the duration. I had no problem but they left a pile of treated seeds in front of the hives. according to the label for treated seeds they are required to bury the seeds, so I have to go have a talk with them. the label instruction is to protect the birds and animals, but not burying them is a violation of the label.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  7. #167
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
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    5,983

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    watch mike, typically the seeds that are treated (canola, corn , sunflowers soybeans )are not handled in that kind of bulk, typically they are bagged or handled in small enough volume that augers are not used.

    This seed is worth a fortune, spills are very expensive and if spills happen, the seed usually will be swept up for use.

    Crops that are handled in volume, like wheat or cereals are handled with augers, and typically are not treated with anything, sometimes will see wheat seed spillage

    I would suspect you saw a fertilizer truck, which they were augering fertilizer into the air seeder, small piles of fertilizer typically happen with spillage.


    Know what your complaining about before you complain otherwise . . .
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  8. #168
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Skiff, Alberta, CA
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    420

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    one interesting thing that I found when researching the coated seeds, due to this thread, that I need to get addressed b/4 planting season. Last year the farmer brought up a trailer truck full of seed, with I think an auger in it to offload the seeds into the planter, they parked it right in front of my hives for the duration. I had no problem but they left a pile of treated seeds in front of the hives. according to the label for treated seeds they are required to bury the seeds, so I have to go have a talk with them. the label instruction is to protect the birds and animals, but not burying them is a violation of the label.
    If the seed was brought in bulk in a grain trailer, where did you find the label? I have only bought it by the bag and last year each bag was 650$. 1 bag did 10 acres. When I used to seed the old Polish variety it was moved from the bin to the truck and the seed was not treated.
    Surely Ian most people know the difference between a blended fert and canola seed. With the price of seed I don't know anyone that would leave it on the ground.

  9. #169
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    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
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    5,983

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by Haraga View Post
    Surely Ian most people know the difference between a blended fert and canola seed. With the price of seed I don't know anyone that would leave it on the ground.
    even fertilizer around here is swept up, that stuff aint cheap,

    we do re screen the sweepings before sending it through the machine though, plugs things up otherwise.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  10. #170
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Skiff, Alberta, CA
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    420

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Since there should be some investigation on the beekeepers behalf it looks like this horse is dead.

  11. #171
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Bloomington In
    Posts
    788

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    dead bee's now we have dead horse's.

  12. #172
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
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    1,920

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    watch mike, typically the seeds that are treated (canola, corn , sunflowers soybeans )are not handled in that kind of bulk, typically they are bagged or handled in small enough volume that augers are not used.

    This seed is worth a fortune, spills are very expensive and if spills happen, the seed usually will be swept up for use.
    looked like corn to me, it even tasseled at the end of the year. I was amazed that they left the corn just laying there also. Can't comment on the label on the bag as there were no bags, but the seeds were treated, they were also the same color as the ones planted at another farm where I looked at the bags(doesn't really mean much) but no one that I have seen plants untreated seed. they had two trucks one for the corn and one for the fertilizer, not sure about the auger as I really didn't pay all that much attention to them at the time, will now though. If its that expensive, maybe next year I'll sweep it up and sell it back to them. When I was up at the field the other day it actually looked like the planted something over the field after they harvested, and they don't use rye up here normally, really makes little difference, I'm moving the yard out this spring and replacing it with a nuc yard that won't go in until after corn is in.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  13. #173
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    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    If its that expensive, maybe next year I'll sweep it up and sell it back to them.
    better idea, if they leave a pile this year I'll bag it and send it up to you guys, just have to pay the postage. Also as to sweeping up seed and fertilizer, They aren't as neat down here.
    the other farm where I looked at the label of the corn its rented land, the farmer had them dump the fert. on the road coming in(dirt), they then dug up the fert and road with a front end loader making a large hole with conservatively a few hundred lb's or more of fert laying around, first rain storm the hole filled up with funny colored water, I was to meet the landowner and put a battery in his tractor, called him and told him not to drive through the hole, he was not a happy camper as he had to walk the battery in to the tractor. He now has a wonderful new road with crushed stone, and a new farmer this year.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  14. #174
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    Jan 2003
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    Manitoba Canada
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    5,983

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    looked like corn to me,
    thats not good,
    one of the reasons why we are so " neat and tidy " is because piles of treated seed are cattle killers
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  15. #175
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    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
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    5,983

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    the farmer had them dump the fert. on the road coming in(dirt), they then dug up the fert and road with a front end loader making a large hole with conservatively a few hundred lb's or more of fert laying around, first rain storm the hole filled up
    what a gong show,
    just remember there are farmers out there that take pride in their work, even farmers who use treated seed
    and when you work with these guys, you will be able to tell the difference between the two, so that you will be able to stay away from the "gong shows"
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  16. #176
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Bloomington In
    Posts
    788

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    We spilled fertilizer one year maybe 50 pound, the deer licked a hole there large enough to burry a full size pickup. It took a few years, It was a great place to hunt.

  17. #177
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fruitland ,Idaho
    Posts
    421

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    thats not good,
    one of the reasons why we are so " neat and tidy " is because piles of treated seed are cattle killers
    Why does the treated seed kill cattle but not bees?

  18. #178
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
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    5,983

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    not so much now, since we stopped using counter-5-G,
    never seen bees working treated seed
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  19. #179
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
    Posts
    1,335

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    The treated seed does kill bees. Actually it is the coating on the seed that contains the neonicotinoid that is toxic to insects, cows too apparently. I'll take Ian's word that it does kill cattle, after all it is a poison.

    Jean-Marc

  20. #180
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,871

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    it'll kill bees if it's dislodged and spread via dust etc... or if they work the seed for some reason.

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