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  1. #181
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,221

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    We use air seeders, we use these seed treatments, I have my hives along side a lot of my fields during planting. I have never experienced a problem with bee die offs like the one mentioned in Ontario, we have seeded in all kind of conditions,
    Now bee death to Furadan during planting, yes
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  2. #182
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,925

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    You guys can still use furadan?? Maybe it was just Cali banning it, I thought the U.S banned it in general.

  3. #183
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    fresno CA USA
    Posts
    125

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    I don't know what happened to this thread I thought it was about major bee losses. I know 5 big queen producers in northern CA that have lost around 50% of their bees not to mention a lot beekeepers and it was not from PPB, from not using Nutrabee, not getting their mite treatment on, and so on. Something is killing bees, causing then to dwindle or crash. I had a few loads go from 12-14 frames in Dec to 1-3 in Jan. I also had loads with less 5% loss to 2 loads that had 90% loss. In CA as in other states there is a lot of chemagation in tree fruit, citrus, melons, berries, any crop you can run a dripper line. The problem is you don't know when it's being applied, most are neonic's. long term exposure to sub-lethal doses are not known. They are also finding that viruses are taking on a life of their own. It would be nice to run up to the hills but in central CA the CA Buckeye will take your bees out and in a drought year it can be very bad. Back in the 70's I remember going out to the trucks in morning and the bee beards hanging off the truck touching the ground and they had some pretty nasty chems back then.

  4. #184
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,453

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    What differences were there in management, location, or any other variables you would care to share with us between the hives that had the biggest losses versus those with just a few?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  5. #185
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,191

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by davidsbees View Post
    from not using Nutrabee,
    Can you please expand on this David, I'm not fallowing you here.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  6. #186
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, OH
    Posts
    2,721

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Not to stir things up, but in this and similar threads I see people reporting others' alarming losses and first hand reports of how well bees did on almonds.
    Go to Heaven for the climate, go to Hell for the company. -Mark Twain

  7. #187
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,221

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by davidsbees View Post
    bad. Back in the 70's I remember going out to the trucks in morning and the bee beards hanging off the truck touching the ground and they had some pretty nasty chems back then.
    what other conditions back then might of helped with that?
    clean wax, very few in hive treatments, no mites, no virus, no nosema, lots of bee pasture, . . . .
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  8. #188
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,191

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    David where did you go?

    This is what I do know, about what you mentioned about keepers up in N Calif as it relates to NutraBee.

    One large outfit that keeps bees, But there main operation is farming almonds & walnuts they use NutraBee sub but they feed a minimal amounts, in fact as soon as nut harvest starts they pull the crews from the bees and shift them to the nut harvest.

    Kevin Ward, he feeds NutraBee, he also is on Joe Traynor's grading program, he tops out, also Joe this year had Kevin move some bees out of some orchards because another keeper had low grades and put some of Kevin's bees in too up the bee counts.

    Leonard Pankratz (cam-am) also feeds large amounts of NutraBee sub, last week Leonard said he was shaking 7-8 lb avgerages the bees look great.

    John Miller & Tony & Nick Noyes both run there outfits very close, ND summer, ID winter cellears, CA almonds, BUT, one feeds heavy NutraBee sub and one does not, Tony Noyes called me this year and said, Keith, last year on 8,000 hives we had a 3% cull, this year we are up to 5% cull whats going on.

    I could go on & on, NutraBee is not wonder bread or Miracle grow..... you do have to feed more than a pound to get a build up.
    Last edited by Keith Jarrett; 04-14-2013 at 08:46 AM. Reason: adding
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  9. #189
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,453

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    I kept bees in the 70's. The main issues were AFB, nosema, pesticide sprays, and (as always) changing farming practices. Overall there was, of course, more bee pasturage than today but different crops would come and go, so as the saying goes "the only constant is change". We were much more at the mercy of local conditions in those days as it wasn't feasible to move your bees unless you were one of the few set up with pallets and forklifts. It's kind of ironic because in those days I constantly heard about the old days but that was the 30's through the middle 60's. Certainly it was much easier to get a crop back then and also much more work to remove and extract it and it was worth much less. I heard all the stories of the old days often enough to conclude that it wasn't ever exactly a panacea. Every year comes with new challenges some beekeepers seem to adapt better than others. Part of it is luck but much of it is finding beekeeping practices that work in today's world.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  10. #190
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    fresno CA USA
    Posts
    125

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Not fallowing ???? A few years ago a friend said the best thing for bees is "diesel smoke" you need to move your bees where they will do the best did not matter if you hand loaded, boomed or forked. Some times it worked out for the better other times it was from pan to the fire. That has not changed. The bee all treated the same, mite treatment on regular basics, feed and protein supplement when needed. I also put in 100 to 200 queens a week (queens weak link). Farming is very diversified you just don't what the bee are getting into 1-5 miles away. Sent some comb sample to Judy Wu came back with lots of chems some that have not bee used in over 20 years so if contaminated comb is the problem it would have more uniform. Most of my comb is over 40 years old. Bees built great in almonds did 100's of splits in the almonds to keep them from swarming now the splits are two boxes of bees ready to make a orange honey crop (God willing) And some early pollination. I my experience nothing is better than the spring pollen flow to build up bees. The winter is when the problems seem to show up. 10-20 years ago you did the meds put your bee to bed in Aug-Sept in Jan they were as you left them. Where did I go? it's morning I had breakfast.

  11. #191
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,191

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by davidsbees View Post
    feed and protein supplement when needed.

    The winter is when the problems seem to show up. 10-20 years ago you did the meds put your bee to bed in Aug-Sept in Jan they were as you left them. .
    David, I agree with most of what you said, I think where we start seperating success rates is the intensity of ones outfit. In certains times of the year, mainly Aug-Nov we are on overtime. I always found it amazing how some can always make it to all the meetings like clock work, I have often asked myself, what I'm I doing wrong, I just can't find the time... There also is definitely a pattern, the same keepers that have problems & the same keepers that don't.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  12. #192
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mesa Arizona USA
    Posts
    164

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    I think Jim L has it right in post 189.. Things are changing and they are gonna keep changing. Neither The EPA or anybody else is not gonna come to my rescue. Therefore it is upon me to take care of my self, nobody else will.I think that the pesticides are a contributing factor, but there is nothing I can do about it short term.maybe in the long term the legislative/corp. wheels will grind into action. I am a small Beek working hard to expand my operation. I was Advised by a successfully Beek when I first got into this business to keep the mites off the bees and on good forage ( or feed) when needed. I am going to keep doing just that because anything else is not going to keep my bees healthy and profitable.. Best of luck to all GB
    George Brenner @ www.valleyhoneyco.com
    Mesa, AZ

  13. #193
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
    Posts
    1,347

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    I agree with your two points GB. Keep the mites low and the feed/or forage. I might add that it is better to keep the feed on before they need it. If bees get to a point of starvation or semi sarvation it can take a couple of generations of heavy feeding before they turn around. I find it best to keep the feed on before the really need it. It seems that by doing that we do not get to many unpleasant surprises.

    Jean-Marc

  14. #194
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Spokane, Washington, USA
    Posts
    734

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Heres the way I look at this.
    August... Not much pollen around and not much nectar. Some are feeding Syrup while others like myself give them some 5lb sub and move them to the peppermint. August and September are crucial months for the majority of winter bees. The bees with a teaspoon of sub or no sub at all dig into their pollen stores and feed that to the young bees and if your stored pollen is full of harmful substances then dont be surprised of all the die offs. Where as the bees that are forced to feed the sub that contain nothing harmful, are full of bees in Jan. Im not talking about any brands here. The guys running 8 loads feeding bee pro had good bees as well.

    Also some say the mites were not the issue because they treated in the fall. Well the bees were really infected in the spring last year because of the good early spring and all those viruses dont die if you do one treatment in the fall. I mite have killed the mite but what happens to the virus inside the bee? Only a few months away from winter and the bees are full of viruses that should have been taken care of in the spring.

  15. #195
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,191

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Many thanks too all that took the time chimed in, wheather I agree or not different views makes us all think and thinking is good. Looking down the road from here, locally we are very dry here going to be another tough year here in Cali. I hope it's better where you are, I trully think the BIGGEST challenge going foward for medium to large outfits is good summer pasture, their is alot less than there use to be and it seems to be shrinking.
    Good luck to all this summer, Keith
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  16. #196
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Jamestown, North Dakota, USA
    Posts
    145

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett View Post
    Many thanks too all that took the time chimed in, wheather I agree or not different views makes us all think and thinking is good. Looking down the road from here, locally we are very dry here going to be another tough year here in Cali. I hope it's better where you are, I trully think the BIGGEST challenge going foward for medium to large outfits is good summer pasture, their is alot less than there use to be and it seems to be shrinking.
    Good luck to all this summer, Keith
    I'm with you Keith. Well fed bees can handle more insults from whatever the cause (just like us) whereas poorly fed bees will not, mostly from compromised immune systems. "Fat" bees that have access to many flower species should logically have a better chance of balanced nutrition since each species of pollen has its own unique mix of amino acids, providing they are good pollens for bees (versus poor pollens from wind pollinated plants like corn for example). Stresses come from many sources--parasites, diseases, pesticides, etc and if the bees are stressed already (poor nutrition for example), the influence will be greater. Probably no single answer which is why so many different views expressed here because many factors are likely involved. BUT good food is an essential part of being healthy for bees and for us. That's why our moms made us eat those foods that we didn't like when we were kids!!!

  17. #197
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Camarillo, CA, USA
    Posts
    312

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    And Chip with that info, what do we now do? Tough to get that nutrition from corn & soy beans. Note: I agree with the info.

    This is a question.
    Larry Pender,Jubilee HoneyBee Company,Camarillo, CA

  18. #198
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,453

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    I think we can all agree that a lack of forage is a huge problem for beekeepers. I have never seen a bee in a corn field and only rarely in soy beans and I check many times a summer. Occassionally I will hear one in a bean field but it's extremely difficult to get under the canopy and actually find one on a bloom.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  19. #199
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Jamestown, North Dakota, USA
    Posts
    145

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by LSPender View Post
    And Chip with that info, what do we now do? Tough to get that nutrition from corn & soy beans. Note: I agree with the info.

    This is a question.
    Good question for which there isn't an easy answer. Until we see better forage, I've been supplementally feeding pollen sub and put fewer hives per out yard. Seems to help in my situation at least. Time will tell on whether programs like CRP will play as large a role as in the past. We've already lost lots of CRP and it ain't over yet.

  20. #200
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    1,977

    Default Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeslave View Post
    My original part of this discussion was about what is happening here where I live.....not about farming practices in CA. Specifically my comment was about the planting practices of the corn crop and the seed treatments. How much no-till corn is planted in CA Keith?

    Wildbranch- Option 1.....they spray it with round up anyways


    see post #6, roundup doesn't work well on dandillions will have to try another option.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

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