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  1. #61

    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    Here is the recipes people talked about at the abf meeting.

    Liquid 1st
    1 pint tea tree oil
    1 pint camphor white
    1/2 pint of orange sweet
    3 pint eucalyphus
    1 pint plus 1/4 cup lemongrass
    1 pint of peppermint or wintergreen

    crystal 2nd need to crush fine or make liquid
    1 pint menthol crystals
    13 pint of thymol crystals

    all of the above can be puchased from the lebermuth company inc

    25 lbs of powdered sugar

    sugar 3rd
    50 lbs of granulated sugar

    grease 4th
    25 lb crisco cake icing shorting

    extras 3 cups citric acid
    3cups of mineral salt

    They are finding if you mix the grease in before the liquid it is smoother
    buy glassine bags from Uline.

    feed every 60 days 1lb makes 6 patties to 1lb makes 10 patties.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Elmwood, WI
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    So can someone inform me on using mitanan

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Clear Lake, WI / Sebring, FL
    Posts
    618

    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    Mitaban is Amitraz.
    Clear Lake Wi. / Sebring Fl.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ka'u Hawaii
    Posts
    169

    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    Was looking at this thread after reading about apivar and the fact that I can now use it.

    Thinking about alternatives and cost, I was wondering about how much thymol is in apiguard? Does anyone know the weight or percentage that is actually thymol??

    Thanks!

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,720

    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    The Apiguard label says it's 25% thymol. Don't know if that's by volume or weight.

    Doing my early spring rounds now and very pleased with the hives I treated with Apiguard last fall. However a lot of research is needed before doing an Apiguard treatment to make sure you get all the variables right. Cost wise it was not as cheap as I had hoped, cheaper than the strip treatments though.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ka'u Hawaii
    Posts
    169

    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    Thanks, Oldtimer,
    I was looking at making some 'homebrew'. But looking at the ingredient costs, it's hard to justify anything other than bulk apiguard. I know apiguard works, but it needs repeat uses and, I had a situation in 2012 where a bunch of nucs produced big beautiful drone layers. It was a windy period, so maybe that contributed, plus it was just after the mites had wiped out the local ferals. So, was it a lack of drones or was it treatment damage? I do not have the answer.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    5,720

    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    This happened at the same time as you used Apiguard?

    Straight up, I'm pleased with the low level of mites in the hives since I did this treatment. BUT - it was hard on the bees, very hard. I think as hard as formic acid.

    Last fall was the first time I've ever used it, and I was sceptical because I've seen so many failures with it on other peoples hives. So I dosed full strength plus restricted a lot of the entrances. The result was many hives had brood killed, queens stopped laying, two queens disappeared completely, and 2 hives were robbed because they were too confused to defend the hive. So I've learned a bit from this and will do things a bit different next time around.

    But use it while raising queens? No I wouldn't I think it would be asking for trouble, and very likely contributed to your problems.

    Like you, I've considered making a home brew, but the cost of the ingredients means I could only achieve about a 30% saving. I'm going to use Apiguard again this fall, with some changes in the method and see how that works. If it works well and without too much disruption, then I might try a home brew at some future time but I need to get it right with the proper product first, before I have a benchmark to see if my home brew is doing as good a job.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,241

    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    This happened at the same time as you used Apiguard?

    Straight up, I'm pleased with the low level of mites in the hives since I did this treatment. BUT - it was hard on the bees, very hard. I think as hard as formic acid.

    Last fall was the first time I've ever used it, and I was sceptical because I've seen so many failures with it on other peoples hives. So I dosed full strength plus restricted a lot of the entrances. The result was many hives had brood killed, queens stopped laying, two queens disappeared completely, and 2 hives were robbed because they were too confused to defend the hive. So I've learned a bit from this and will do things a bit different next time around.
    Could you give us some specifics OT? What were the high temperatures during the Apiguard treatment and where did you place it? Also what were the hive populations and configuration (heavily populated doubles for example).
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ka'u Hawaii
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    169

    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    In my case, drone brood was probably exposed to Apiguard. I think that my drone layers were caused by that or a lack of drones. My yard had drones; however some claim that the queens fly beyond their range to mate. How these experts know that is beyond me.

    I also treated a couple of hives late this spring during warm 80 degree weather. The front of these 2 hives were heavily stained with either bee vomit or feces from that treatment, and 1 queen failed. These were 1 deep with top spacer, fyi.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Could you give us some specifics OT?
    OK, got the honey off earlier in fall than usual (late February), because a Beesource member from Canada came & stayed a few days & gave me a hand. So the hives were reduced to strong 2 deep hives, some of them hanging out strong, but then we went round and made fall nucs which reduced them to just strong 2 deep hives, by strong I mean bees on outside of outside frames both boxes. Some nectar still coming in & a lot of hives gathered the best part of another box after the supers and nucs were taken, winter feeding was easy cos I didn't have to do any.

    Couple weeks later when treatment started, daily temps were around 70 - 74 high, and nigh time lows of around 60 -68. To treat, I cracked the boxes and put a card with 50 ml's Apiguard gel on it middle top bars of the bottom box. Shaded locations or weaker hives had their entrance restricted. 2 weeks later they got a second dose of another 50 ml's. I didn't get around them again for maybe a month by which time all traces of treatment were gone although a lot of them smelled of it.

    There were a few oddball weak hives which were treated, for them it did not generally work, I've decided it only works on hives full of bees.

    During treatment many of the hives were fairly devastated bee wise, a lot of them threw larvae out the front of the hive, and some of them a month following treatment had lost 3/4 of their bees. They did not recover quickly either, some did, but for many they are only just starting to rebuild quickly now.

    However at time of treatment some hives were showing severe mite damage ie visible PMS, crawlers, etc, and these hives now are healthy no sign of mites. The first queen raising starts in a little over a month from now and going by what I see the bees will be ready in time.

    What I'm going to change next year, is put a rim on top of the hive and put the Apiguard on the top box. Putting it centre of the hive was hard on the bees, although from a mite perspective, very effective. I did lose some hives though robbing and queenlessness. The Apiguard literature says it's most effective placed between the two boxes, but I found that too disruptive to do it again. So hoping doing it on top will be less disruptive, but also get good results. Just have to wait & see, I'll report back.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    So if you treated with Apiguard and your hives were all in single deep brood box you would say it will be very hard on the bees because of the small area of confinement? Is there a way to avoid that with single deeps, maybe a smaller dosage, and would that still maintain a high degree of effectiveness? John

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    I'm guessing cos the only single deckers I treated were weak hives, I gave a slightly lower dose but for most of them it was not effective against mites.

    Where the robbing was caused was because the Apiguard was placed centre of the hive and in some cases forced the bees to evacuate the area around middle of the bottom entrance, leaving it open to robbers, which happened. Having thought about this if I have to do strong singles, I'll split the dose up into maybe 4 small doses one near each corner, The idea being to try not to drive bees away from the entrance, which must remain guarded. Might even try this technique on a few doubles, but put 4 corner doses on the top bars of the bottom box.

    Happy with the mite control, just need to experiment to find the least disruptive method for the bees.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  13. #73
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    Jan 2009
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    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    Thanks Oldtimer for your information and suggestions for doing singles. Been treatment free for years and I am looking at treating for the first time this fall if the bees require it. My singles should be strong rather than weak when I do the treatments, so that may help some. John

  14. #74
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    Jul 2010
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    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    Jmgi, I've just seen your post in the other thread outlining why you will now treat. Course I cannot discuss it there so there's a couple things I would like to say here.

    Following losses last winter, if you use Apiguard, it's possible the harshness of the product could cause you more losses. It's only a suggestion, but Apivar strips (not api-life-var), is very gentle on the bees and very effective against mites. If you were to do a fall treatment with Apivar, provided your bees are properly housed and properly fed, no reason why you should not get 100% survival and pumping colonies come spring. Apivar is not organic (unlike Apiguard), but leaves no permanent toxic residue in the hive, unlike the other strips such as Apistan, which do.
    Seems this would get your operation back on track, and you could use Apiguard next time around, with the safety of a few more hives.

    Only a suggestion though, please do whatever you deem best.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    Oldtimer, I am not committed to using any particular product right now, that's why I'm asking so many questions. I appreciate any and all suggestions based on someone else's experiences with a product, so thanks much. John

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pottstown, Pennyslvania, USA
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    329

    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    Randy Oliver uses a 25 gram dose of Apiguard on an index card inserted from the back of the hive in between the two deeps and says he really likes the results over the 50 gram dose. He does this twice, 10 to 14 days apart. In hot weather. I'll be trying this shortly.

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by DPBsbees View Post
    Randy Oliver uses a 25 gram dose of Apiguard on an index card inserted from the back of the hive in between the two deeps and says he really likes the results over the 50 gram dose. He does this twice, 10 to 14 days apart. In hot weather. I'll be trying this shortly.
    If you read some of Randie's posts on bee-l he also states that he uses the smaller amount as he is trying to get mite resistence into his bees.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    wildbranch2007, although I have not yet read what you are talking about, I find it very interesting that he is experimenting with it that way, I have heard of people using smaller doses but not for that reason. I know that the product can be hard on the bees, and after being treatment free I don't want to go full circle and hit them so hard that it causes lots of bee and brood mortality and queen issues. I'm looking at getting some help with the mites to the extent that they can get through the winter and come out on the other side at least strong enough to build up normally the next season and make a crop. Obviously that's what everyone wants. Generally speaking, I have heard and witnessed that with a good queen coming through winter, she can outbreed the mites for the most part of the next season. John

  19. #79
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    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    If you treat between the brood chambers, at least when I do, when you break the comb between the brood chambers is where I see the dead lava etc that is put in front of the hive and I usually treat with around 50 grams as I have 3 deep hives. I have never lost a queen(that I can tell) or significant amounts of brood to apiguard. I treat when it is warm(end of aug early sept) and when I was using mitewayII would use apiguard first if too hot and never seen any loss of queens or brood. never seen bees exit the hive or beard on the front of hives. I am interested in oldtimer saying the label says to use between brood chambers as last time I looked our label didn't, but I haven't read it in a while

    next time i'm in bee-l I'll see if I can find where randy says that, but he posts so many posts It's usually hard to find anything specific, cant think of a search word that would work?
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: Is their a new way to treat mites?

    I can't copy the link without logging out so here is the post.

    >
    > >Why would you not wait until you can treat per label or simply use
    > another treatment?
    >
    >MAQS strips walk a fine line. Killing varroa without killing queen and
    > brood is a fine line.


    You answered your own question.
    I breed for mite resistant bees, and never allow mite levels to get high,
    so I don't look for treatments to clear the hives of mites--simply to keep
    knocking the mites back. I find that manufacturers set the dose to give
    95% mite kill, with not too much stress on the colony. I don't look for
    95% kill, but do look to minimize stress.

    I have great success using Apiguard at half dose, sometimes repeating.
    I've also gotten satisfactory setback (for me) when experimenting with MAQS
    at a single strip. I'm currently testing more formally.

    I had a bunch of growing singles in hot weather that I wanted to knock the
    mites back a little in, without shutting the queens down. So I experimented
    with a half strip, and preliminary checkback looks like I got the result I
    wanted.

    Bob, there is no single formula for all beekeepers, nor all hives, nor all
    times.

    Allen, I find this discussion very interesting. I'm curious as to why we
    get such different results with natural fall and alcohol wash.

    The important thing, to me, is to monitor mite levels by whatever method
    works consistently for you. The mites will let you know if you are
    successful.


    --
    Randy Oliver
    Grass Valley, CA
    www.ScientificBeekeeping.com
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

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