Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 86
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    24,483

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    I think its rather ironic that not a single beekeeper from the U.S. posting on Beesource seems to know anything about Amitraz. Speculation, perhaps...but it simply isn't believable that no one knows anything.

    Let's hear some details.

    deknow
    Is there something specific you want to know, which we can discuss on beesource.com? It's my understanding that discussion of off label use of miticides is verbotten on beesource.com. So, what do you want to know?
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    24,483

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post

    ...required to follow label requirements?

    deknow
    Go to any orchard, vegetable field, dairy, etc. and you will find 5 gallon jugs of chemicals that those farmers mix themselves for application. That's what I was refering to. Many commercial beekeepers find manufactured strips onerously expensive. Compared to what it would cost to make strips or other delivery devices themselves.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,426

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Is there something specific you want to know, which we can discuss on beesource.com? It's my understanding that discussion of off label use of miticides is verbotten on beesource.com. So, what do you want to know?
    Well, I think there are two things you could clarify. You doubtless know more commercial and migratory commercial beekeepers that I do. Not everyone reading has the resources to know if I'm just making things up. There are 2 things I've been saying that could use a general confirmation, denial, or clarification:

    1. That for years, Amitraz has been popular among some circles of commercial beekeepers....offlabel (not registered for bees at all)

    2. That Tactik was a formulation that beekeepers were using to mix their own mite treatments...and that the fact it has been taken off the market was perceived as a problem by these beekeepers going into this past winter.

    These two points are important, because if the above contributed to the bee die off this year, then we should not be putting all the blame on neonics...or pinning the solutions on banning neonics.

    I'm certainly not ruling out the contribution of neonics...in fact, look at the last page of that survey I posted with the pollen contamination. Imidacloprid in 9.1% of samples...at an average level of 30.8ppb!!!! That is pollen/beebread taken from the comb, not trapped pollen...that's what is in the brood nest.

    But having Dan Rather talk about the bee die offs, and not talk about what beekeepers are adding to the chemical equation, and what they are actually doing doesn't serve any real purpose...but to sell advertising on the news.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  4. #64
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    2,771

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    But having Dan Rather talk about the bee die offs, and not talk about what beekeepers are adding to the chemical equation, and what they are actually doing doesn't serve any real purpose...but to sell advertising on the news.

    deknow
    I suppose it is ok to talk about amitraz these days on Beesource since it has been "OKed". TakTic was taken off the market nearly a year ago and would have been unlikely to contribute to the problems that many commercial beekeepers have had, rather the absence of Amitraz....
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    24,483

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    1. Yes, I would say that that has been true.
    2. Yes, true for those who hadn't stocked up before hand.

    I agree w/ your 4th paragraph.

    "The medium is the message." Someone smarter than me wrote that. I think I recall him being from somewhere in Canada.

    Have you written to Dan Rather explaining your disappointment?
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,426

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    ...would have been unlikely to contribute to the problems that many commercial beekeepers have had, rather the absence of Amitraz....
    Exactly.

    What did they use instead?

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,121

    Thumbs down Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    What a total BS story that was, a complete waste of time. I have bees in crows Landing, with in a mile on either side of Perez ranch that the yellow boxes were shown, I wish Dan would have stuck his nose in one of those blue boxes to find out how the CCD was doing.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,426

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    A few notes from the video:
    25:30-Shop towel treatment?
    28:10-Shop towel treatment between boxes?
    29:24-Same

    What was on the shop towels?

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    24,483

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    A few notes from the video:
    25:30-Shop towel treatment?
    28:10-Shop towel treatment between boxes?
    29:24-Same

    What was on the shop towels?

    deknow
    You'd have to ask the beekeeper. Any other answer would be speculation, not knowledge. Unless someone actually knows. I don't.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  10. #70
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    2,771

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    A few notes from the video:
    25:30-Shop towel treatment?
    28:10-Shop towel treatment between boxes?
    29:24-Same

    What was on the shop towels?

    deknow
    I can not say with 100% certainty......but with enough certainty to make a wager on it. Those- all of them - are not shop towel treatments.... they are the remains of pollen patties.....
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,426

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    oh....that well could be. I've never used a pollen patty, so I don't really know what the remains look like.

    Apologies to all.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    24,483

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    A few notes from the video:
    25:30-Shop towel treatment?
    28:10-Shop towel treatment between boxes?
    29:24-Same

    What was on the shop towels?

    deknow
    I went and looked and what I saw was protien patty paper and an uneaten protien patty.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,426

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    Ramona googled Jim Doan and found this video:

    ...at about 2:35 there is a blue shop towel being dunked into something....not pollen.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  14. #74
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    2,771

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    It would not surprise me that the lack of a good miticide, or at least an economically viable one, significantly contributed to these deaths.
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  15. #75
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    2,771

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    Ramona googled Jim Doan and found this video:

    ...at about 2:35 there is a blue shop towel being dunked into something....not pollen.

    deknow
    Is someone suggesting that commercial beekeepers have never used TakTic on shop towels?
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,430

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    After all the demands made of me in the other thread (the finances, medical history, and numbers of all treatment free commercial beekeepers), and the general consensus that what conventional commercial beekeepers do is an open book (as opposed to the secretive world of treatment free beekeepers who won't post on beesource),

    deknow
    Ha Ha, got to say that's a little Rich, Deknow.

    Please let me refresh your memory. Although these questions or "demands" if you want to call them that, were posed, they went unanswered by the "secretive" treatment free beekeepers.

    (Your claim, Amitraz effects memory).

    So how does the secret world of treatment free commercial results, somehow translate, into traditional commercial beekeepers have to be an open book?

    LOL! I love the debate on this place.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 04-05-2013 at 08:38 PM.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  17. #77

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    What's the frequency, Kenneth?
    Greg Whitehead, Ten Mile, TN
    Blog - http://gregsbees.blogspot.com/

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, OH
    Posts
    2,539

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Modem View Post
    What's the frequency, Kenneth?
    That's several times today I've literally laughed out loud on Beesource.
    Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,426

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Please let me refresh your memory. Although these questions or "demands" if you want to call them that, were posed, they went unanswered by the "secretive" treatment free beekeepers.
    What was unanswered? I posted quite a bit about what Kirk, Dee, and Bob do....Chris Baldwin posted his own information. Both Kirk and Dee have readily available writings talking about what they do. I corrected a lot of misinformation.

    Outside of the kind of financial and operational numbers that we also don't know from conventional beekeepers, what is "secret"?

    (Your claim, Amitraz effects memory).
    I was joking because somhow no one remembered the migratory, almond pollinating treatment free beekeeper that had posted earlier in the thread.

    So how does the secret world of treatment free commercial results, somehow translate, into traditional commercial beekeepers have to be an open book?
    I don't have time to dig through and produce quotes at the moment...on my way out. There were several claims that the conventional commercial model was an open book, and that any number of ways to run an operation were transparant in a way that the treatment free folks weren't.
    But if a sizeable percentage have been using off label treatments and not talking about it. _and_ if the commercial beekeepers participating in that thread knew what I was talking about but wouldn't acknowledge....what is the open book? That the treatments that are available and recommended work? ...well enough that there is no wide scale use of illegal treatments by the commercial beekeeping community?
    The contention was that there was nothing to compare...that we knew what the conventional beekeepers were doing, but not the treatment free. This was a false contention.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,430

    Default Re: 'buzzkill' - dan rather reports on bee deaths among the almonds

    Well what I was interested in was their production results. None were forthcoming. Just to refresh your memory.

    That's what I was referring to, as I am sure you are aware.

    And although it's somewhat nosey to ask such a question, really, when people such as Dee are fairly insistent we should do things a certain way, some kind of yardstick should be held up to show it works. Mere survival of the bees is not a suitable yardstick to a commercial beekeeper. Production is, as it is that that makes a commercial outfit viable, or not.

    I'm not insisting that question be answered, it's personal, particularly if the results in question are nothing to write home about. The right to remain silent is there I didn't quibble with that. Likewise, if you are accusing somebody of breaking the law, it's hardly realistic to expect somebody to come along on a chat site, and fess up. But, if you want to keep trying, please go ahead....

    Just pointing out that the argument that you answered some questions (but not the important ones) re management, so therefore somebody has to fess up to doing something illegal, is a rather weak argument, and is unlikely to translate into reality.

    However to the thread OP, I would say, this thread may show, if you read it properly, how things do not always turn out as they may seem. Hence the initial scepticism of some members, to some of the claims on the video. Not everybody, always, says everything they know.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads