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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Great Falls, MT, USA
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    19

    Default Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    Hello All,
    A fellow beekeeper told me that the FDA has approved Oxalic Acid for treatment of mites. I am not aware of any way to verify if this is true or not.

    Was he right?..... or just trying to sound like he knew what he was talking about.

    and how can I verify?

    thanks

    Bull Creek

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    1,858

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    I'm not trying to be funny, but when the were approving MAQ's, I opened a question with them, If you would like to get frustrated give it a try. Took me over a year, and the product had been approved for 10 months b/4 I got an answere, you really should give it a try you might have better luck than I had.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    this is what he is probably referring to

    From American Bee Journal. April 3, 2013 EPA Approves Apivar Honeybee Miticide For Use In All 50 United States U.S. beekeepers now have a safe, proven, and...
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    3,967

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    Don't use it as a mite treatment - that would be bad. Use it as a nutritional supplement.
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Tulsa, OK
    Posts
    3,421

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    Oxalic acid is used as a mite treatment (although not registered in the U.S.).

    The EPA, not the FDA, approves pesticides.

    Nobody has bothered to go through the expense of getting Oxalic acid approved by the EPA because there is no way to make money off of it as a seller. However, it is widely used off-label in the U.S. and legally many other places. I actually had a university professor tell me that is what a major university uses on its hives, which tells you how screwball the registration system is in the U.S.

    Also, for those who do not know, Apivar is not an Oxalic acid product. The active ingredient in in Apivar is Amitraz, which for a while has really been the the most widely used miticide in the U.S. for some time, although not legally until now. Taktic was the product, until they stopped selling that product, which caused some beekeepers to get it registered. That also shows how goofy the U.S. registration system is.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Great Falls, MT, USA
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    Thanks for the info. From the reading I've done, Oxalic Acid seems like the best value in mite treatment while still being effective. I'm just a hobbyist and don't know any legal implications of using a treatment that is not approved. Does it matter? Is it regulated?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    3,967

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    The use of nutritional supplements aren't regulated - as long as they don't get into honey.
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Corvallis, OR
    Posts
    223

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    Oxalic acid, while potentially hazardous in concentrated form, is not a regulated chemical. You can buy it in hardware stores as a wood bleaching agent, possess as much as you want, sprinkle it around your garden, put it in your beehives. Eating it in large doses is not recommended as it ties up calcium and can lead to kidney stones, but foods like rhubarb and spinach contain about 1% oxalic acid so it is a regular component of our diet.

    Now if you want to use it to kill mites that's a whole different legal can of worms, because it is now a pesticide. Off-label use of a pesticide, be it Roundup, DDT, oxalic acid, or table salt, is a violation. Intent is, of course, difficult to prove in court. So keep those top bars looking bright!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    Oxalic acid is also the only ingredient listed in "Bar Keepers Friend" Which is great for cleaning those ceramic range tops. I'm not in any way implying that you should use bar keepers friend for any bee keeping purpose - except removing those stubborn stains. It may not be pure OA and whatever other things it contains could be bad. The point is - it's a common cleaning product that you use on your kitchen counter tops with your bare hands - for what that is worth.
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    University of Nebraska put out a large paper on using AO for mite control. I'll try to attack it here.
    Couldn't do it but here's a link http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/entomologydiss/1/
    Dan

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
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    1,483

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    Quote Originally Posted by KQ6AR View Post
    University of Nebraska put out a large paper on using AO for mite control. I'll try to attack it here.
    Couldn't do it but here's a link http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/entomologydiss/1/
    Really nice. Thanks for sharing. The bottom line is:
    -Single autumn trickle treatment (max 2g per hive) with a 3.5% OA sugar water solution (1:1 by weight) provided an efficacy of greater than 95% in Central Europe. For some reasons, it is slightly lower in US.
    - OA efficient only when the hive is broodless.
    - Summer OA treatment does not affect substantially the mites count.
    - 3.0 mL of a 2.8% OA solution per 1000 bees to packages ... > 90% mite control; dose must be quite precise for effect.
    - vapor treatment is not recommended since it presents health risk for person, who performs treatment. At the same time efficiency is the same as spray or trickle method.
    - OA is acute toxin for mites. The mechanism is not known.
    Last edited by cerezha; 04-05-2013 at 02:10 AM.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    King County, Washington
    Posts
    83

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    Using a 3.5% Oxalic Acid is perfectly legal to use when keeping those wooden top bars looking brand new. If a little just happens to spill on the bees...purely coincidental.

    Now if you have plastic frames...you might have a problem

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Knox Co, Ohio, USA
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    799

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    Quote Originally Posted by KQ6AR View Post
    University of Nebraska put out a large paper on using AO for mite control. I'll try to attack it here.
    Couldn't do it but here's a link http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/entomologydiss/1/
    From reading the abstract it was interesting to see the treatment for package bees. Is anyone treating their packages before intalling them? I suppose you could do the same thing if you are shaking bees to stock mating nucs.

    Tom

  14. #14
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    Oct 2011
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    Santa Monica, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    Quote Originally Posted by TWall View Post
    From reading the abstract it was interesting to see the treatment for package bees. ...
    It is a little bit tricky. Yes, they show nearly 90% efficiency of treatment 3.0 mL of a 2.8% OA solution per 1000 bees to packages. BUT:
    1) dose must be measured precisely, regular "sprayer" is not good. They used special expensive pressurized air "gun". Every package also needs to be weighted to determine the exact dosage.
    2) it is efficient only if they spray bees 3 days BEFORE release, which is fine if treatment is performed at seller's side.

    Mortality of bees in best case scenario (packages) for this treatment is ~10%.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Yuba City, Ca
    Posts
    128

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    I'm not treating for mites. But from Nov 1 and Jan, I'm might be bleaching and cleaning the tops of my frames. I don't need an FDA approval for that.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Central CA.
    Posts
    480

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    You might want to look at this thread. Some different ideas. But you got to read it all to get past "the same ole same ole".

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...c-acid-dribble

  17. #17
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    May 2008
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    Concord, CA
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    Keep in mind the dribble method is a once per year method, its very hard on the bees. The vapor method can be done more often.

    Quote Originally Posted by CLICKBANGBANG View Post
    I'm not treating for mites. But from Nov 1 and Jan, I'm might be bleaching and cleaning the tops of my frames. I don't need an FDA approval for that.
    Dan

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Central CA.
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    480

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    Quote Originally Posted by KQ6AR View Post
    Keep in mind the dribble method is a once per year method, its very hard on the bees.
    Not so.

    #31 beemandan



    Join DateDec 2005LocationAthens, GAPosts3,017

    Re: oxalic acid dribble
    Originally Posted by Mbeck
    Why does everyone repeat that this is harmful?



    Originally Posted by Flyer Jim
    Everyone repeats the same old line cause they haven't tried it or didn't do it right.



    Well Mbeck and Flyer Jim…I popped over to Randy O’s website to collect a citation to prove you wrong….and lo and behold…….

    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-...ral-miticides/

    However, those who can accurately apply the proper dose can obtain good mite control with oxalic dribble either with a single dribble when the colony is broodless, or by three multiple treatments a week apart when the colony contains brood (Sammataro 2008)

    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Aberdeen, Idaho
    Posts
    433

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    You guys talking nutrional supplements, and cleaning top bars are doing this tongue in cheek I hope, because this would not even slow down the prosecutory process.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Yuba City, Ca
    Posts
    128

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Mite Treatment Approved by FDA?........

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Burrup View Post
    You guys talking nutrional supplements, and cleaning top bars are doing this tongue in cheek I hope, because this would not even slow down the prosecutory process.
    IM me when they arrest Randy...

    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/firs...-for-your-nuc/

    Our typical mite management regime in Grass Valley is as below:

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