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  1. #1
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    Default Where Are The Beekeepers?

    When it comes to commerical bee keepers, everyone seems to have a story, or know of someone who has had CCD happen to their operations. However, it seems like no one is doing anything to try to combat it, or trying to do something different to stop it from happening. And I dont get it, I mean isnt your operation your livelihood, and you would want to see something dont about it. I see a lot of commercial beekeepers that are saying that other beekeepers that suspect pesticides, or GM crops, or treatments to be at the heart of it are lying and do not have solid evidence to back this up, but we still see CCD happening. It seems that we are losing more and more colonies and we are still coming to the same conclusion: well we do not know what is causing it, so we arint going to change. Its disappointing to see this because it makes us seem lazy, or stuck in the ways that are harming our operational but also could be devastating for our future beekeepers. There is a part of China that now has to hand pollinate its main crop, apples, because they used pesticides and sprayed their crops so much that all of the colonies the beekeepers had died. Isnt this enough to point to some evidence that pesticides are causing CCD, in combination with other practices? What i am trying to ask here is why are we counting letting CCD happen and not atl east trying to pinpoint to what is causing it so we can eliminate it to save our colonies, and our livelihood.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by drewbs View Post
    Its disappointing to see this because it makes us seem lazy, or stuck in the ways that are harming our operational but also could be devastating for our future beekeepers. .
    Alot are lazy & stuck in there ways! Your post is dead on, well said! I have been keeping bees for over 30 years and myself and many others I know don't lose over 5-7% every year, why do some run all over the map & others a constant 5-7% loss over winter. This is a no brainer.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    on another note, its really disappointing to see beekeepers with HFCS or sugar to feed bees, because of beekeepers taking most to all honey that is in their hives, this again is a terrible habit to get into. I really want this to be an open dialogue, no judgement, but trying to find a solution.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by drewbs View Post
    but trying to find a solution.
    That really is simple, treat them just like any other livestock.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by drewbs View Post
    However, it seems like no one is doing anything to try to combat it, or trying to do something different to stop it from happening.
    What?
    Go to Heaven for the climate, go to Hell for the company. -Mark Twain

  6. #6
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    Washington, AR, USA
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Who says there is nothing being done about it? Many ideas are being experimented with, styles of management, ect. Science does not point to any one culprit to CDD, pesticides, GM, or whatever boogey-man your moralist opinion disapproves of. Commercial farming operations by necessity must have practices that produce the margins to justify the investment, otherwise they go out of business. Honeybees are not even an native species to North America, so as economically important as they are, there is no ground to moralize about their loss on this continent. For the record, I am a no chemical treatment and no foundation hobby beekeeper, put no chemicals on my garden, compost only fertilizer, no weed killers on my lawn, all natural sort of person. But dang, the eco-religious sanctimony among those who hold the same beekeeping style and practices as my self gets to be overwhelming.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    But dang, the eco-religious sanctimony among those who hold the same beekeeping style and practices as my self gets to be overwhelming.
    See this is the problem with talking about what could cause CCD. I am not a environmentalist in the slightest, im talking more about the bad practices, today, and how these practices are leading to thousands of colonies being destroyed, and beekeepers going either broke or deeply into debt because of these loses. It seems that it costs more and more time consuming to feed our bees HFCS then to let the rob the bees of all their honey and then selling it which could lead to winter lose. im talking about how much beekeepers have lost, which is definitely in a high millions to billions. I am talking about having to re apply treatments, when we could be breeding better queens. but more importantly it seems that if we do not do anything the bee industry could be in a lot of terrible. I dont want to see us end up like the Maoxian county in China ended up.
    Last edited by Barry Digman; 03-30-2013 at 06:07 PM. Reason: fix quote

  8. #8
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    Washington, AR, USA
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Bad beekeepers using unsustainable practices go out of business. But natural beekeeping practices are not sustainable either. There is no way on earth anyone could use the natural methods I use on my hobby hives in a successful commercial operation. It is the very fact that we have a competitive free market that results in the equilibrium of a sustainable commercial operation and avoids the overwhelming mistakes of one centralized planner who thinks he knows best and causes the tragedy you described in China.

  9. #9
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    Lee County, Illinois, usa
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    I think when you all feed processed sugar to your bees you damage them. I also think all of you using chemicals on them damages them. I never feed my bees and i never use any chemciak treatments on my hives qnd they are probably stronger than most all of everyone elses

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon F View Post
    I think when you all feed processed sugar to your bees you damage them.
    A couple hundred years experience says you're mistaken.
    Go to Heaven for the climate, go to Hell for the company. -Mark Twain

  11. #11
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by drewbs View Post
    im talking about how much beekeepers have lost, which is definitely in a high millions to billions.
    Perhaps you should do a better job of checking your facts before posting. Billions of dollars in losses? Really??

    From the USDA 2011 Annual Honey Production Report

    Honey production in 2011 from producers with five or more colonies totaled 148 million pounds, down 16 percent from 2010. There were 2.49 million colonies producing honey in 2011, down 7 percent from 2010.

    http://www.abfnet.org/displaycommon....articlenbr=183
    Since total US commercial honey production is 148 million pounds, there is no way that beekeepers are grossing anywhere close to a billion dollars annually, so to suggest they are losing billions of dollars makes no sense.

    .
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 03-30-2013 at 07:41 PM.
    Graham
    -- The real problem is not precise language, it's clear language. - Richard Feynman

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Honey is not the only way to make money with bees. Have no clue what they actual $$ amount would be, but I'm sure it's a lot more than any of us think.
    Beeman
    All things may be lawful; but not all things are advantagous.

  13. #13
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    Lee County, Illinois, usa
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by cg3 View Post
    A couple hundred years experience says you're mistaken.
    As you all complain about bees suddenly dying off and being weak and needing medical treatments cough cough

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon F View Post
    As you all complain about bees suddenly dying off and being weak and needing medical treatments cough cough
    Not been a problem here, speak for yourself.
    Go to Heaven for the climate, go to Hell for the company. -Mark Twain

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by drewbs View Post
    on another note, its really disappointing to see beekeepers with HFCS or sugar to feed bees, because of beekeepers taking most to all honey that is in their hives, this again is a terrible habit to get into.
    The bottom line for some of us is that we intend to turn a profit. I do try to leave the fall crop which is rather dark and strong, hence less in demand, but lately the drought has limited that to the extent there is not enough to go through winter with. At the price I pay for sugar from Walmart, it cost me about $3.00 per week to feed a colony of bees. I read somewhere that bees raising brood will consume about 100 pounds of honey to reach maximum bee population. I personally have no idea what the exact figure is, but I do know that here in the central part of East Texas, I want my bees to have 70-90 pounds to go through the winter and have plenty of stores to build up on beginning the end of January. Our elm pollen starts here mid to end of January, and with adequate stores of honey, or being fed sugar syrup, they will start to brood up.

    I will average $7.50 per pound [clear after labels and containers] for my treatment free honey. Let's just say that by building my bees up on sugar syrup, that I save 50 pounds of honey [I would actually think that it is more than that]. That is $375.00 per colony. Let's see $3.00 per week in sugar syrup X 8 weeks about =$25.00. . That makes sense to me to feed sugar syrup and sell my honey and make an extra $350.00 per colony.

    Kindest Regards
    Danny Unger
    "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." Nathan Hale, 1776

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    well said Danny
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by drewbs View Post
    When it comes to commerical bee keepers, everyone seems to have a story, or know of someone who has had CCD happen to their operations. However, it seems like no one is doing anything to try to combat it, or trying to do something different to stop it from happening. And I dont get it, I mean isnt your operation your livelihood, and you would want to see something dont about it. I see a lot of commercial beekeepers that are saying that other beekeepers that suspect pesticides, or GM crops, or treatments to be at the heart of it are lying and do not have solid evidence to back this up, but we still see CCD happening. It seems that we are losing more and more colonies and we are still coming to the same conclusion: well we do not know what is causing it, so we arint going to change. Its disappointing to see this because it makes us seem lazy, or stuck in the ways that are harming our operational but also could be devastating for our future beekeepers. There is a part of China that now has to hand pollinate its main crop, apples, because they used pesticides and sprayed their crops so much that all of the colonies the beekeepers had died. Isnt this enough to point to some evidence that pesticides are causing CCD, in combination with other practices? What i am trying to ask here is why are we counting letting CCD happen and not atl east trying to pinpoint to what is causing it so we can eliminate it to save our colonies, and our livelihood.
    An Apiary Inspectors of America Report from a cpl years ago reported an average across the Nation of 30% Die Back. Less than 10% of which was CCD or CCD Related. So, if one addresses what one can address, starvation for example, our annual losses would be quite a bit lessened.

    Address what you can and don't worry about what you can't.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by drewbs View Post
    on another note, its really disappointing to see beekeepers with HFCS or sugar to feed bees, because of beekeepers taking most to all honey that is in their hives, this again is a terrible habit to get into. I really want this to be an open dialogue, no judgement, but trying to find a solution.
    And to those who leave plenty of honey and still have colonies facing starvation? No judgement, but have you walked in the shoes of those you are addressing?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Kindest Regards
    Danny Unger
    Last edited by DRUR; 03-30-2013 at 07:24 PM. Reason: Deleted, rather antagonistic
    "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." Nathan Hale, 1776

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Where Are The Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by drewbs View Post
    im talking more about the bad practices, today, and how these practices are leading to thousands of colonies being destroyed, and beekeepers going either broke or deeply into debt because of these loses. It seems that it costs more and more time consuming to feed our bees HFCS then to let the rob the bees of all their honey and then selling it which could lead to winter lose.
    The beekeepers I know manage their colonies so they have honey left on them to Winter. They don't take "all their honey". Normally, how much honey does it take to sustain a deep box full of bees? Here in SC a medium full of honey will keep a hive alive thru the Winter. So, a deep plus a medium or two deeps is all that is needed. Which makes a semi load of beehives a uniform load. Which is important when moving bees.

    What has your experience been?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

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