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Mystery Malady Kills More Bees, Heightening Worry on Farms

6K views 21 replies 16 participants last post by  Andrew Dewey 
#1 ·
#2 ·
You know if we could get farmers to tell exactly where and when they are applying each chemical and bee keepers to tell where and when bees are foraging and failing in a year or two we might get a much clearer picture of what is causing this. If the government didn't just use all that data to come take our stuff.
 
#6 ·
What individuals or groups are contacting the NY Times and other media outlets each year in order to instigate these sensational "bees are dying" news articles all over the world?
Is it sue happy opportunist type beekeepers? Radical environmental groups? Researchers that stand to benefit from the research grants that will be awarded because of all the concern and worry generated by the news articles? None of the above? All of the above?
 
#7 ·
So Mr. Adee is lying?

Bret Adee, who is an owner, with his father and brother, of Adee Honey Farms of South Dakota, the nation’s largest beekeeper, described mounting losses.

“We lost 42 percent over the winter. But by the time we came around to pollinate almonds, it was a 55 percent loss,” he said in an interview here this week.
 
#8 ·
These alarmist articles are really good for the cutout business and save numerous swarms from bug spray. So in some ways, more press is better.

But I have discovered a lot can go wrong, and on this thread or the commercial, someone mentioned larger operations don't have "owner hands on" inspecting.

I have a good crew, but I go out with them, so I have eyes on and hands on, and our quality of work is more consistently good due to my presence. That could be life or death for a hive, if the help is having an off day, multiply that out, and some things may be hard to quantify.
 
#9 ·
Wasn't there a thread recently about winter losses--beesource members reporting higher losses than usual?

And to echo MB, if this is what's killing the bees, what's it doing to our children and grandchildren that are growing up on this food? I hope it's all propoganda. If it isn't, we have much more to worry about than the bees.
 
#10 ·
here are two good posts from bee-l one a summary of bee problems and a question about canada losses
I love Detective books and attempt to discern the bad guy way before the
detective. The key is, with a good writer, that the clues are sprinkled
around liberally so you can see everything and how they all tied in to lead
the novel's detective to the culprit.

So what are the clues as to the culprit in bee deaths per the recent NYT
article. There are plenty of accusations, but even the article's writer is
smart enough to label it a mystery.

We know that CCD is probably viral. We know that Varroa can cause sudden
collapse when virus and/or nosema are present. We know that virus by
themselves can cause collapse as can nosema, but not always. We know that
collapse can occur with or without the neonics present. We know that there
is a cocktail of chemicals in a colony with the highest concentrations
having been introduced by the beekeeper.

We know that several virus were here before Varroa but both Tracheal and
Varroa mites allowed them to become viral. Also, other virus were
introduced with bees brought in from away. We have no idea just how many or
what we currently have as a mix in our hives.We do not know all the bad
ones or good, just some of the bad.

We know that after the initial CCD, it seems to have gone into hiding and
many outfits recovered.

From the past we know that miticides have a limited life, such as Apistan
and Cumaphose. We know that Apivar (Amitraz) has been used illegally in the
US for years and is probably nearing or at its end of effectiveness in some
outfits.

We know that Almonds are a great gathering of beekeepers and there is a lot
of sharing of bee ailments so you can go out worse than when you came in.
Same for blueberries on the East Coast.

We know that the neonics can cause bee problems at certain levels. We know
that many beekeepers pollinate canola and so far have seen no issues. We
know that neonic corn dust kills bees but after that there appear to be no
problems.

We know that low levels of most all the pesticides found in the hive, both
by and in-spite of the beekeeper can cause issues with bees, including
their immune system.

From the article we see that collapse can happen in the spring or fall and
over the winter but apparently not in the summer months, which is similar
to Varroa collapse. It seems that collapse can happen before nectar flow or
pollen but not during pollen and nectar flow, so the bees appear not to be
affected but it is implied that the dose is cumulative over a long time.

I think I have covered most, but not all the issues with bees in our
present situation which are different than the pre- Varroa world when many
of us started keeping bees.

All of the problems before Varroa are still with us and they are legion
such as Foulbrood, Tracheal mites, AHB, along with beekeepers induced
problems like traveling stress, and starvation.

Some things we do not know. We do not know the long term effects of the
neonics, but we have statements from some beekeepers near corn (Randy's
census) that they are doing fine. We need to get more info from those who
pollinate canola over a long period.

We do not know if bees are affected over a long period eating pollen and
honey from canola, sunflower and other neonic treated crops. Plus, if it
affects their immune systems over that period.

We also need info from sunflower pollination since sunflowers seem to be a
poster child for bees and the neonics in France and implicated in the NYT
article.

We need to know the beekeepers who used Amitraz illegally and for how long
and the condition of their bees. Several years back I was told that there
would be a major crash of bees because of the illegal use and home brews of
Amitraz by commercial beekeepers. The reason was simple, that they
overdosed and reduced the time to resistance. Picture a simple scenario.
Say there is a major congregation point for bees where mites could move
from one outfit to another in staging areas. Say some of those mites
developed resistance because of the illegal use of Amitraz. With a few
years of visiting the same area, the pollinators would have resistant mites
and soon reach a point when their bees would crash.

We do not know what those with CCD did with their equipment. Did they just
reuse it? The time involved from when CCD hit until now is a good length
for a pathogen to peak, collapse and move again to a peak. Again, we have
the congregation area where the good suffer because of the bad. Some may
have sterilized their equipment and some may not.

We need info from Canada this year as to winter success. Medhat has a
treatment program for Varroa and nosema and beekeepers who followed it have
enjoyed success. Since they are also near the neonics (canola) it would
help clarify the problem especially if they suffered major losses.

We need to know if there are synergistic issues with the neonics and
fungicides or if it is the fungicides and other pesticide additives (as
noted in the article) which are the problem. (Shades of agent orange.)

And I am only getting started.

But looking at what we have learned so far, I would still pin the tail on a
pathogen, specifically virus, as the main issue with our bees. There may be
one or many.

I do know that with most all beekeepers I know here in Maine, some of who
have bees right next to neonic treated corn, if they treat and know when to
treat, their bees survive. If they do not then the bees suffer.

Still a long way to go before Poirot gathers the suspects into the drawing
room.

Bill Truesdell
BBill said:

We need info from Canada this year as to winter success. Medhat has a
treatment program for Varroa and nosema and beekeepers who followed it have
enjoyed success. Since they are also near the neonics (canola) it would
help clarify the problem especially if they suffered major losses.

Bill we have too much snow on the ground. Still beekeepers looked at some bees. Early reports of out doors winter kill from 3- 15% with very long sever winter. Yesterday I visited indoor facility with
800 nucs 6 framers. Checked with light through the entrance. I suspect 2% winter kill. This is in Alberta. I heard that vancouver island where we had persistent high kill had very decent winter kill and bees are in best shape. I rest my case.

Medhat
 
#13 ·
Bill we have too much snow on the ground. Still beekeepers looked at some bees. Early reports of out doors winter kill from 3- 15% with very long sever winter. Yesterday I visited indoor facility with
800 nucs 6 framers. Checked with light through the entrance. I suspect 2% winter kill. This is in Alberta. I heard that vancouver island where we had persistent high kill had very decent winter kill and bees are in best shape. I rest my case.
And remember folks, those Alberta bees are on canola - neonics - and are thriving.
 
#14 ·
Just some thoughts, I'm pretty agnostic on the whole neonic topic. Lots of conjecture with only limited, rigorous data coming from really one side.

Could CCD occurrences (if that's what is the culprit this year, or at least what the current billing looks to be) actually be the manifestation of a "perfect storm"? Just taking a total approach, including climate conditions, I'd suspect the heavy losses this winter could have been a result of that perfect storm. The mild 2011 - 2012 winter coupled with the drought in 2012 then the rather whiplash weather pattern of this current winter probably have more to do with all this than many are currently giving credit to in the media.

I see posts here on Beesource that question the very existence of CCD to CCD being the cause of every colony loss. As in most things in life, the truth lives in the middle. The real problem that I see when it comes to beekeeping in the US is the relatively lacking amount of detailed industry data. Let's really face FACTS, for an industry that is supposed to be so important to the food crops of the population; there really isn't much intensive, rigorous scientific data being funded. There in lies the problem.
 
#22 ·
While agricultural chemical usage is a concern, to me the more important issue is do the bees have decent habitat with diverse pollen and nectar sources?

It is my perception that the trend in modern agriculture is toward mono-culture. Driving to and from work I pass fields that have have been cleared of rocks and leveled for wild blueberry production. And I'm sure that the grower's efforts will result in a larger blueberry crop - but at the same time it will remove that area as potential year round forage for both honey bees and native pollinators.

Do beekeepers need to control their own forage areas? Easy enough for a stationary beekeeper with land, but it would require a complete rethinking of most large scale commercial beekeeping where bees are frequently kept on land owned by others.

I'm working to make my land a good forage area for bees. I do need to concern myself with how neighboring land parcels are managed (or at least be aware of how they are managed) and I also need to take account of the land's carrying capacity for bees.
 
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