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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pueblo, Colorado, USA
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    723

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    The second best investment I made for my shop was an '74 professional radial arm saw ($65 on craigs list) that can spin an 8" dado pack. Making rabbets on my boxes and top bars is so much easier now, I just had to wait a few months to find a good one.
    Zone 5a @ 4700 ft. High Desert
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  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,749

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    A good RAS is a great thing....I have a delta/rockwell from the 60's at the house (turret head design) that I'm not looking forward to moving to the shop (up out of the basement), and a Sawsmith (variable speed RAS) at the shop.

    Keeping these things aligned is even more important than a table saw....get a good heavy cast iron one...not a lightweight craftsman.

    For dados, they dont' require a zero clearance insert.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,749

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    OK, I did make a couple of inner covers today from the beesource plans...all on the table saw (a "shakedown cruise" after adding the fence and sprucing things up).

    Acebird is correct, the rabbits aren't really necessary, and if you are not set up for them, they add a lot of work.

    The non-standard craftsman switch decided to stop working (my saw has a toggle switch on the motor that has been dead since I got the saw, so I robbinhooded a switch and breaker in a box from a newer/similar saw I have for parts....which means I have spare parts for everything _but_ the switch).

    I went to Lowes, HD, Sears, a commercial hardware store, an electrical supply store _and_ an independent tool store....no drop in replacement...ended up (speaking of safety) bypassing the switch for the moment....ordered one from Amazon and wondered how any of these stores can compete with online sales.

    Acebird is also correct that my table saw is now very well aligned

    My not too expensive dado stack (avanti i think...I paid about $50 for it) doesn't cut a flat bottom...which is really inconvenient. I'm not sure if it's worth having them professionally ground, or if it is too much to ask of a cheap tool.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,749

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    ...but I do remain at least a bit concerned about some of the procedures recommended. I think it is reasonable to assume that some folks attempting to build this stuff do not have proper training, and may well get a poorly aligned or damaged saw off of craigslist...or have a cheap saw that isn't capable of being kept in alignment.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,749

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    I think also the plans are a bit flawed. 1/4" between the rim and the board on the shallow side is a bit much WRT beespace for most boxes I think..and this is the shallow side.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,624

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    I went to Lowes, HD, Sears, a commercial hardware store, an electrical supply store _and_ an independent tool store....no drop in replacement...ended up (speaking of safety) bypassing the switch for the moment....ordered one from Amazon and wondered how any of these stores can compete with online sales.
    deknow
    They can still do it by offering selection and expertise and there are a few of those stores still around but they are getting scarce. One of my pet peeves is when someone asks me if they can "help" me at one of these big chain stores and I find myself spending the next 5 minutes educating them or worse yet they start reading labels to me. When they ask I just want to say "on a scale of 1 to 10 I am about a 6, if you aren't at 7 or better then, no, I am doing fine.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,749

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    I happen to live somewhere almost as cosmopolitan as Herrick..... we don't have a grain elevator, but we do have all the shops I mentioned within 3 miles of the house. I would have bought a new switch box to wire in, but none of them had anything appropriate.
    Lowes and HD don't carry switches for the saws they sell.

    Deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    10,151

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    I think it is reasonable to assume that some folks attempting to build this stuff do not have proper training, and may well get a poorly aligned or damaged saw off of craigslist...or have a cheap saw that isn't capable of being kept in alignment.

    deknow
    Think about the average home owner buying a chain saw and standing on the top of a step ladder to cut limbs off.
    A power tool is just that POWER TOOL. Something as simple as a 1/2HP hand drill can break your wrist in a heart beat.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,749

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    ...which is why I have concerns about instructions that recommend convenience over safety. These plans are not being written for or provided to professional woodworkers.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    lafargeville ny usa
    Posts
    954

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    JIM.... a lot of times when i am at lowes about the 4th. time some incompetent asks to help, i stop and as nicely as possible say "yes. how can i walk thu this store without being harrased?"....... . one time i gave up looking and asking and was walking out, i was stopped at the register and asked. naturely the clerk had no idea what rigid foam insuation sheets were. so he got on his cell phone and called a particular incompatent mature lady after 5 or 10 minutrs it was deceided to check with the assisttant manager after his break {the same one who did not know what a metric wrench was or where it was the week before} . in the mean time there were 4 or 5 pepole in line behind me all with returns... i loudly anounced that i had figured out where to find the insulation board, the eager clerk asked where so he would know next time. i had him ." HOME DEPOT" .. applause and laughter from the audience...of cource the same thing could happen at home depot.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,149

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    But they're FREE!
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lake County, Indiana
    Posts
    82

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    I think also the plans are a bit flawed. 1/4" between the rim and the board on the shallow side is a bit much WRT beespace for most boxes I think..and this is the shallow side.

    deknow
    I can't speak for Barry but I imagine if you made a set of plans he would put them up. Then we can take a look and see what we like better.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    3,749

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by signalten View Post
    I can't speak for Barry but I imagine if you made a set of plans he would put them up. Then we can take a look and see what we like better.
    The spacing issue has nothing to do with "better" or "worse"....what is in the plans is wrong...it violates bee space, which is the central concept behind the Langstroth hive.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,712

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    The spacing issue has nothing to do with "better" or "worse"....what is in the plans is wrong.
    Hmm, most people do not have a problem determining which side of "better" or "worse" that "wrong" is on!
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    10,151

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    The spacing issue has nothing to do with "better" or "worse"....what is in the plans is wrong...it violates bee space, which is the central concept behind the Langstroth hive.

    deknow
    I make my inner covers symmetrical using 3/4 pine and 1/4 plywood makes a 1/4 inch space. Why is this wrong when I see no problems with it?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    Rader Sidetrack > "How much time do you spend watching TV? What exactly is it that you get out of that?"

    Sidetrack try concentrating on the specific subject matter at hand, concerning the original post. And how much television anyone chooses to watch is none of your damm business. Try comprehending that.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,749

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    When combined with the space above the top bars in most commercially available (and homemade to standard dimension) boxes and frames, 1/4" makes the distance between the top bars and the plywood 1/2", which is generally a bit over bee space (about 3/8), so the bees tend to build comb up there. The whole point of the Langstroth hive is to maintain bee space everywhere so that comb does not get built there, between frames and boxes, between boxes, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I make my inner covers symmetrical using 3/4 pine and 1/4 plywood makes a 1/4 inch space. Why is this wrong when I see no problems with it?
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    10,151

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    I made my boxes to the exact inside dimensions of the BetterBee boxes I bought the first year. The top of the frames sit 1/16 below the the rim height of the box that makes a space of 5/16. There may be some frames that sit 1/8 lower because the top bar is tapered on the ends but in no way is the inner cover 1/2 inch away from the top of the frames. I can only conclude that there are different standards for different manufacturers.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Eva, AL, USA
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    I use the delta tenoning jig for small rabbits. It's not very precise for furniture but for bee hive parts it works well. the price is not too bad and it is very safe to use for the cuts where you have to have your piece of wood held vertically.

    He is a link to the jig http://www.toolking.com/delta-34-184...FWGrPAodRD0A-Q

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,749

    Default Re: Table Saw...Safe Practice?

    There are differences between manufacturers...one of the journals had a chart a few years ago showing them all.

    Given that there are differences, and that these are plans for inner covers separate from boxes, frames, etc, they should be given so that they are likely to fit almost anything that is close to standard. A 3/16" lip fits the bill, 1/4" does not.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

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