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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Roy, Wa
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    Default Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    I know, you can't tell by the color. Folks with experience can give their best guess.

    (Please excuse the bad paint job

    She's a 2012 model-this is a photo from today. Overwintered in Western Wa so those are also her offspring. The apiary I got her from ended up being questionable. I would like to know what to call her.




    Thanks for your help.
    Last edited by Lauri; 03-26-2013 at 07:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,675

    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    What is a Buckfast queen? I'm not being ignorant, nor am I joking. Buckfast queens were a population bred by Brother Adam. Brother Adam has been gone for some time, and the bees that are sold as "Buckfast" have no relation to the bees he was breeding.

    The best analogy I can come up with is something like "Pyrex".....Pyrex kitchen products used to be made of the same material as their lab ware...now, you can buy "Pyrex" kitchen ware (from Corning) that is made of soda-lime...not the borosillicate glass that people expect "Pyrex" to be. Pyrex isn't Pyrex anymore.
    I'm baffled by what people think they are getting when they buy "Buckfast" branded queens.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
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    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    "Folks with experience can give their best guess."

    I know it's not Brother Adams true strain-
    I know it's not a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle-

    I assume breeders are raising queens that have the correct lineage and exhibit the traits that strains are known for.

    It would be nice if labs like UC Davis had some DNA testing for bees like they do for horses, dogs, etc. .
    Last edited by Lauri; 03-26-2013 at 07:49 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Lyons, CO
    Posts
    3,045

    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    Call her Susan . It's REALLY hard and (except to a few hard-cores) not very reliable to characterize a queen for sure just by looking. Sure you could opine that this one's dark abdomen seems Carni, and that one's seems leather Italian, but who's to really know?
    Bees, brews and fun
    in Lyons, CO

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    4,063

    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    I think that supplier may have used a set of dice marked like retirement dice, but he probably bought a lot of the queens he distributed as his own.

    THere are people breeding bees of lineages going back to Brother Adams bees. If they want to describe them with the buckfast name, that is logical and proper. But your reservations are well founded and it just doesn't matter~! If she is a good long lived queen raise some queens from her.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,316

    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    Back in the 70s the Buckfasts typically looked like the leather colored Italians. In other words, less "yellow" than the typical commercial Italians. But since he wasn't breeding for color, I'm sure they varied. I'm also sure they have changed over time. I had them from the 70's to 2001 and they were not the same in 2001...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    DesAllemands, Lousiana
    Posts
    218

    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    I have some Buckfast queens from R weaver and they are much Darker. Not sure if they are true buckfast or not but i dont really care. I bought them last year just to try them out and they are doing very well. They are gentle, laying full frames brood and building up very quickly. That's all that matters to me.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    1,836

    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    I don't know if mine are Italian or Carni. Maybe they are a mutt. If yours are the buckfast then mine
    pretty much look like that as well. Cannot tell by their color alone. Youtube bee channel said there is no more pure bred bees anymore. They are all mutt now more or less. Who can truly say they have the pure bee genetics now.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Whitmell, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    I installed five 'italian' packages from south georgia somewhere, yesterday and I know at least one queen was tiger striped like that.

    It should be pretty safe to say that everything in the US is a mutt of some sort.

    While black bees fascinate me, the brown queens and golden workers seem to be more domesticated.
    Don't laugh it's paid for. -- Manure draws more flies than honey.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
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    1,674

    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    Yup, performance is worth more than a name. After overwintering about 60 hives successfully this year I have to say, the daughters of the Glenn inseminated Carniolan queen I bought in 2011 are the shining stars in my yard. Daughters from a swarm I collected in 2011 also are performing very well. BeeWeavers single daughter queen looks fabulous, but I will see how hot this second generation is before grafting too many of them. I ordered 5 more Beeweaver queens to be delivered late April though. I did like them and they really get to work.

    The different strains, what ever they may be, really have different traits. It is obvious when you can see the hive conditions side by side when they have all had the same management.
    I also have some comments about overwintering prep and management, but will make that another thread at another time. Those I did lose I know exactly why and will share that insight with you. (It was not mites)

    This next month I will be evaluating which queens I will be grafting from this year. When you tended them last summer and they are overwintered, you have a great feel for performance and positive traits. When I open some hives I just think "whoa!" Those are already on my list

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    Good job, Laurie. Glad you get things done early this Spring.
    Welcome back! Cannot wait to get my queen moving, I mean mated.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Roy, Wa
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    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    Thanks Beepro. I haven't gone anywhere, just too busy to read much or post. If you are interested, click on my Agricultural facebook page and see what I've been working on.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Miller...56954971040510

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Litchfield, CT, USA
    Posts
    430

    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    Could be a Sunkist or Moonbeam... Sorry I couldn't resist.
    "Someday we will look back and realize someone was right...and conveniently forget we were the ones that were wrong."

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Bloomington In
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    788

    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    Looks like a queen with a yellow dot.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    Nope, looks like a Carni. Those I have 4 so far. Big fat and juicy virgin ones.
    No red dots yet. I also have the Sunkist or yellow type bees. Sorry!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
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    1,513

    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauri View Post
    ...the daughters of the Glenn inseminated Carniolan queen ...
    Wow, I guess I missed something... may be mature "boys" also involved?
    Серёжа, Sergey

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    Yes, youtube has videos on those mature boys artificially way.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
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    2,655

    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    Nope, looks like a Carni. Those I have 4 so far. Big fat and juicy virgin ones.
    No red dots yet. I also have the Sunkist or yellow type bees. Sorry!
    Most carnis that I've seen are much darker than these.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    Yup, that is why I think these are the mutts. Not sure after
    a few generation if they are still pure anymore.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Winter Park, Florida
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Does this look like a Buckfast queen?

    Lauri,

    The queen in the picture has markings that are consistant with the Buckfast line.

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