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  1. #1
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    Default Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Spring 12

    Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Spring 2012

    Anyone look at this thing?
    http://www.ontariobee.com/sites/onta...ties.ENG-1.pdf

    This seems so intentionally vague that I'm already doubting that the data will back up the assertions:
    Residue analysis was conducted to determine whether bees were exposed to the
    insecticides used on treated corn seeds. Samples of affected bees, from many incident
    locations, were analyzed for pesticide residues by the PMRA Laboratory Services or
    Ministère de l’Agriculture, Pêcheries et Alimentation Québec. Clothianidin was detected in
    approximately 70% of the samples analyzed in Ontario and clothianidin and
    thiamethoxam were detected in the samples analyzed from Quebec. On a bee yard basis,
    these residues were detected in approximately 80% of the bee yards where dead bee
    samples were collected and analysed. Samples of unaffected bees were also analysed and
    clothianidin was only detected in one sample at very low levels. Corn seed in Ontario and
    Quebec is treated in approximately equal quantities with either clothianidin or
    thiamethoxam. Since thiamethoxam is converted to clothianidin, the detection of
    clothiainidin in dead bees could indicate exposure to either clothianidin or thiamethoxam.
    No levels cited, no quantification of the number of hives sampled.

    I'd like to simply be able to take someone at their word that their conclusions are supported by their data...but I don't think we can.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    There is some data there that SEEMS to be concerning. But yes, if you managed your data carefully enough something like that could be extrapolated depending on what is released and what is withheld. Could they be contacted and asked to release all data.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    I dunno...this is now being passed around by beekeepers as some kind of alarming report. It might be...but it seems not just vague, but intentionally vague.
    A closer reading shows that they found pesticide residue in bees that were already dead and suspected to have been poisoned by pesticides....and didn't find residues in bees that weren't dead. It doesn't really reveal much, other than to point out that pesticide poisoning can often times be identified by the beekeeper based upon observation.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  4. #4
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    "Measures have been implemented to reduce honey bee exposure to dust generated
    during planting of treated corn seed, including communication of best practices to reduce
    the exposure of honey bees, labelling of treated seed, a treated seed dust standard, and
    development of technical solutions to reduce dust, including developments in the areas of
    seed coating quality, seed flow lubricants, planting equipment, and disposal of treated
    seed bags."

    i don't think anyone disputes that these insecticides will kill bees if they are released in dust clouds during planting.

    hopefully the corrective measures will mitigate these kind of losses this year. looks like they will be watching,

    "Additionally, the nitro-guanidine neonicotinoids have been placed under re-evaluation
    (REV2012-02, http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pubs/...12-02/indexeng.
    php) and further regulatory action will be taken if required."

    i wonder if the beekeepers were compensated for their losses?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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    5

    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    From the follow-up report - "unusually high number of incident reports of bee losses from across southern Ontario, involving 40 beekeepers and over 200 beeyards, as well as one report from Quebec involving eight beeyards."

    Here's the follow-up report released Feb 4 2013 outlining Canada's measures to reduce risk to pollinators from neonicotinoid-treated seeds

    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pubs/.../index-eng.php

  6. #6
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    Dec 2012
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    Ontario
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    Quote Originally Posted by gees_bees View Post
    From the follow-up report - "unusually high number of incident reports of bee losses from across southern Ontario, involving 40 beekeepers and over 200 beeyards, as well as one report from Quebec involving eight beeyards."

    Here's the follow-up report released Feb 4 2013 outlining Canada's measures to reduce risk to pollinators from neonicotinoid-treated seeds

    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pubs/.../index-eng.php
    I love how you can read through their entire list of "actions" that basically say they are going to do nothing. Im sure the wee little beekeeper is going to track down the big farmer and ask him nicely not to spray except during the early morning or evening.... sigh. It makes me sick. Also, im quite confident when the bees see that the seed is labelled they are likely to avoid it...

    http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.c...or-hive-deaths

    This just occurred in my area, where I plan to put my bees this spring, not exactly cultivating (pun intended) a ton of confidence.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Grey County, ON, Canada
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    i wonder if the beekeepers were compensated for their losses?
    They were not.

  8. #8
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    Quote Originally Posted by Markt View Post
    They were not.
    does canadian law provide for compensation for the beekeeper's losses?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Ontario
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    No, as far as I know there were some bailouts for some of the bigger producers who got hit hard with ccd. As far as any sort of insurance/compensation for the losses, as far as I know they dont exist. Maybe a more experienced Canadian beek could give you some more specific information.

  10. #10
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    Manitoba Canada
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    I cant speak for these beekeepers, I dont know of any law suits against the farmer. I doubt it, that beekeeper would have a hard time finding property to put his bees on,...

    , but if your referring to bailouts related to CCD,.? What CCD outbreak are you referring to in Canada?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  11. #11
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    Feb 2012
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    Grey County, ON, Canada
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    Not for that sort of thing, they've come out with some good bear kill compensation programs but nothing so far as pesticide related. I'm sure that if some people see a repeat in 2013 that the lawyers will be circling though.

  12. #12
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    Feb 2012
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    Grey County, ON, Canada
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    Ha yeah suing farmers strikes me as about the best way to lose pretty much all of your existing yards and never being able to find new ones that I can think of... Gotta keep in mind that most beeyards are there because the farmer doesn't care either way, they don't really get all that much out of the deal other than some honey. (Canola etc aside perhaps)

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    it will be interesting to see if the mitigation strategy is successful.

    i sure hope so for the beekeepers' sake.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    Quote Originally Posted by Markt View Post
    because the farmer doesn't care either way, they don't really get all that much out of the deal other than some honey. (Canola etc aside perhaps)
    exactly right. Unless they need pollination, and not much seed production around here, they will have bees on their land more so as a good will gesture towards the beekeeper himself. Very important to be recognized as a sound character and appreciative to the community for the use of the lands. Bad PR moves beekeepers out very quickly.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    it will be interesting to see if the mitigation strategy is successful.

    i sure hope so for the beekeepers' sake.
    towards who?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    Quote Originally Posted by honeydrunk View Post
    http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.c...or-hive-deaths

    This just occurred in my area, where I plan to put my bees this spring, not exactly cultivating (pun intended) a ton of confidence.
    Not to hijack the thread, but the picture on this site shows what looks like classic varroa/viral collapse. All the untreated deadouts in our area since last October look like this. Small cluster with some uncapped brood outside the cluster area (indicating the cluster size before the collapse), starved in cold weather because the cluster is not big enough to touch the honey. We are in a rural area with no big ag, only woods, abandoned fields, and pasture land, and mostly natural forage. The only pesticides of concern are from homeowners, and I don't think that equals 100s of acres of corn or soy and the accompanying pesticide use. I think varroa is the problem indicated in this picture, especially last year with the mild winter and early spring on east coast. Translates to more winter loss following such a season.

  17. #17
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    towards who?
    Ian, I believe you may have misread squarepeg's use of the word "mitigation" as "litigation". The mitigation SP is referring to is mentioned in post #4.

    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    yup that is exactly what I did, thanks Rader,
    cleaning my glasses right now lol
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  19. #19
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    Mar 2013
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    I agree. It would be great to have evidence based facts; excluding extraneous variables in controlled studies, to get to the bottom of this. Then the facts can be used to affect change.
    No one famous.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Sprin

    Quote Originally Posted by rkereid View Post
    Not to hijack the thread, but the picture on this site shows what looks like classic varroa/viral collapse. All the untreated deadouts in our area since last October look like this. Small cluster with some uncapped brood outside the cluster area (indicating the cluster size before the collapse), starved in cold weather because the cluster is not big enough to touch the honey. We are in a rural area with no big ag, only woods, abandoned fields, and pasture land, and mostly natural forage. The only pesticides of concern are from homeowners, and I don't think that equals 100s of acres of corn or soy and the accompanying pesticide use. I think varroa is the problem indicated in this picture, especially last year with the mild winter and early spring on east coast. Translates to more winter loss following such a season.
    Our area is pretty much all corn and soy, so it is a definite possibility. Also the beek in question is like 3rd generation, his whole life kinda beekeeper so it would seem rather odd for a guy like that to suffer such damaging losses, though im a noob so I dont know either way.

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