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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Palm Harbor, Fl USA
    Posts
    463

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    @ Broke-t
    the ones I tried to take today I could barely see in the RJ. A couple were just milky lumps- I am not even sure I got a larvae- maybe just RJ. Will check tomorrow-
    My wife says I have ADD, but, hey look- a chicken!

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,006

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    You will almost surely have better luck if you improve the light and magnification until you can see what you are doing. One of those lighted desk magnifiers is not bad, but a lighted optivisor is awesome. It's quite likely that the whole problem is that you are just damaging the larva.
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Belfast, Ireland
    Posts
    396

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    I doubt it is operator error with regard to moving the larvae into the cell cups.
    I have had colonies start 20/20 and on occasion 0/20 and I always graft the same way.
    The difference in success rate is usually something to do with external factors such as weather or the state of the cell raiser colony.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pinellass County, Florida
    Posts
    1,109

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    I can add nothing to the tec end seems all kinds of good advice
    So i wish you the best in the next graft
    Hope it's 20 out of 20

    Good luck

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Central CA.
    Posts
    490

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    when you made your cell cups did you use soapy water on the dowels? some times they don't like the soap smell.

  6. #26
    makjak123 Guest

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    Zero risk does not exist, but the risks are minimized. A micro graft session is a long careful procedure but involving little danger.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Palm Harbor, Fl USA
    Posts
    463

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    I did not use soap- cells came off the dowels just fine. Our weather has been a little squirrelly this week. I'll check em in a few hours, and see how round three went. Thanks again for all the pointers!
    My wife says I have ADD, but, hey look- a chicken!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Portland, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    240

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    Have not read every post here so this may have already been covered; but if you don't keep grafts moist enough, they don't take well. I cover my grafting frame & cell cups when not in use with very damp paper towels. I had a good friend and breeder for 20 + years tell me that when you start to graft time yourself 10 mins. After that put cell bars in hive. Takes practice, but works for me.
    Beeman
    All things may be lawful; but not all things are advantagous.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Palm Harbor, Fl USA
    Posts
    463

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    I looked yesterday, the bees are drawing a lot of worker cell foundation on the cell builder frame. Maybe a couple cells looked damp, but no cells with white milky food. several were clearly rejected and chewed into comb...
    My wife says I have ADD, but, hey look- a chicken!

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    Two thoughts, first are you sure you didn't flip the larve?? they have to remain same side up... and second Might try mel Dissolkens method . if they draw those then you know its something in your grafting.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Walker, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    896

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    HERE is a site that offers a nice review from a novice perspective that may offer you a helpful clue or two of what is going wrong.

    (I can only imagine your frustration at this point! Hang in there!!)

    HTH

    Rusty
    Rusty Hills Farm -- home of AQHA A Rusty Zipper & Rusty's Bees ( LC and T)

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,925

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    In my experience the biggest factor in getting cells to take, is the density of bees in the starter.

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenre...tm#cellstarter
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  13. #33
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Palm Harbor, Fl USA
    Posts
    463

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    I peaked again today, and nearly certain that the third attempt had 0 % acceptance. Interestingly, one frame had a little circular area of polished cells- they were empty- but I am gonna let them ride another couple days- see if I missed a QC, and she hatched and is about to lay...
    li'l buggars are frustrating.

    As far as hive density- if after opening the cover, the hive bars are black with bees, and the frames are full, and you have trouble getting your fingers on a frame for all the bees- are we in the right ball park?
    My wife says I have ADD, but, hey look- a chicken!

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,325

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    Though, you may be correct about the presence of a queen. Even when my cell builders are given frames of emerging brood, as soon as brood emerges those cells are almost immediately filled with nectar, sugar syrup, or pollen.

    Preparing sections of comb for receipt of eggs, is not a good indicator of queenlessness. And, actually nearly every time I've had repeatedly zero acceptance, after I looked closely, right after placing the grafts, I usually discovered a virgin queen going down the row of cell cups and pulling out the larvae recently grafted there.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  15. #35
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Palm Harbor, Fl USA
    Posts
    463

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    And that's what I 'feel' is occurring. after 24 hrs, on my third attempt, looking at the grafts- there was nothing really in them, they looked dry, and several were getting formed into comb.
    My wife says I have ADD, but, hey look- a chicken!

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Tyrone, Pennsylvania,USA
    Posts
    353

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    Have you tried adding a frame of open brood and then wait 48 hours to see what happens.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,925

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    > Interestingly, one frame had a little circular area of polished cells- they were empty

    Sounds like a virgin queen...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Belfast, Ireland
    Posts
    396

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    That would be my guess too at this stage.

    either the cell raiser had a virgin queen in it when you set it up, the most likely explanation, or else one arrived later.
    Virgin queens are 'crafty' and I have known them to switch hive.
    This happens when there are a lot of mini-nucs with virgin queens in the area.
    If there is a big queenless colony nearby, a virgin can fly from a mini nuc and get accepted the queenless one.
    One way of avoiding this is to have a strip of excluder over the entrance.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Palm Harbor, Fl USA
    Posts
    463

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    Found a laying queen in the finisher this weekend. Must have missed a QC when I put the box together...at least one reason for them not making any queens from the grafts...
    My wife says I have ADD, but, hey look- a chicken!

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Belfast, Ireland
    Posts
    396

    Default Re: two graft sessions zero takes

    Mystery solved then!
    At least it's good to know it's not the fault of the grafting technique.
    Onwards and upwards for the next batch.

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