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Unplaned lumber for hives

13K views 37 replies 17 participants last post by  bluegrass 
#1 ·
Any problem with using unplaned 1" thick bandsawn white pine for hive bodies and
and other wooden ware ?
 
#3 ·
Unplaned lumber is not a problem as long as you make sure that the interior dimensions of your hive bodies match existing standards.

But, if the"unplaned" lumber is also "not dried", then a different set of issues arise. Lumber that is not kiln dried or not air dried will shrink as it dries to equilibrium moisture, and hive bodies will likely not be the same dimensions after the lumber dries.

Make sure you know what you are buying before you invest!
 
#4 ·
Its my own lumber harvested and cut about 6 years ago, was covered and stickered a few years before
i had a chance to bring it into the barn.
Couldn't really see the extra bother of planing the stuff if its not necessary even though
i do have a planer.

I made up a hive stand and outer cover today with it using my store bought hive
for inside dimension.

I think in the future i will make my own hives out of bandsawn pine. Rustic !

Thanks for the input

Newbee
 
#7 ·
As was stated earlier, the interior dimensions are important in a bee hive. Proper "bee space" most be maintained or they either will fill it with bur comb or not have room to travel in the hive.

The problem that you may find with unplaned lumber is not that it is thicker than planed lumber, but that it is not consistent. The thickness of each individual board may vary along the length of the board. If you can work with that, you will be okay. You may want to consider planing one side just to get consistent thickness.
 
#11 ·
The other reason for planing the lumber (and jointing it flat, for that matter) is that it ALWAYS changes shape as it dries. Shrinks more along the grain than across it, so board cup when "flat sawn" an shrink across the length when quarter sawn. It's hard to build good boxes out of cupped lumber, to say nothing of twisted or warped.

I'd plane at least one side flat, both sides is better, to get it flat. You don't need to do more than that, and if you run the whole stack through each time you change the planer settings, you will have uniform thickness within the capability of your planer. Surface texture won't make any difference, but a quarter inch gap in the middle of the corners will!

Peter, who had planed an amazing amount of lumber for a PhD botanist!
 
#12 ·
Furniture Product Table Room Chair

Unplaned poplar stacked and stickered for 18 months covered outside. I paint the end grain to minimize splitting. Like Bluegrass, I like the added R factor, bees don't seem to mind mill surface. I use lap joints, Tightbond II and 16-1 5/8 drywall screws. I use all mediums, I pay $250. For 200 1x8x72 boards which is just right for a box with a minimal amount of scrap. I started building these 3 years ago and so far haven't had any problems.
 
#13 ·
Band sawn lumber should be uniform thickness even when rough sawn. If it isn't it means you need a new Sawyer. Because the one you have is either in a hurry or doesn't know what he is doing.

I did a large sawing job for a tree service several years ago (30 TBF). The tree service hired me and then about half way through got a second guy to come in and set up beside me in order to get the job done faster. The second guy was flying through the logs and I had other jobs I could be doing so I packed up and moved on. About a year later the tree guy called me back to do another job because all the stuff the second guy milled was wavy and inconsistent..... He told the tree guy that that was normal for rough sawn, but then when they looked at the stacks I had milled everything was straight and uniform...

The difference was he was paying me by the hr and I later found out he was paying the other guy by the BF. In the end he hadn't saved any money because he ended up with a bunch of wood that he had to pay to be planed on all 4 sides.
 
#14 ·
Band sawn lumber should be uniform thickness even when rough sawn. If it isn't it means you need a new Sawyer. Because the one you have is either in a hurry or doesn't know what he is doing.

Perhaps it should be.

Talk with anyone who has planed any amount of rough lumber and I am guessing that they will tell you that it isn't.

I plane my lumber with several shallow passes. Seldom does the first pass take off the same amount for the length of the board. Usually there are sections along the length of the board that need more than one pass.

Some sawyers are better than others, but asking for uniform rough lumber every time is asking for a lot.
 
#15 ·
See a lot of knowledge about bandsawn lumber here and
agree that even the best sawyer will end up with a untrue piece of lumber on occasion .

Have a cull pile for that, not very big at all but anyone who has planed much lumber can usually see (eyeball)
before making the 1st pass if its an oddball.
Seems the last board cut from a log is usually where any thickness variation end up from end to end.
And dry wood can cup, the wider it is the more it can cup.

Was curious most about the texture but if they hive up in a hollowed out tree than
texture shouldn't be much of a problem.

Not going to be a problem finding flat and true 7" wide roughsawn boards for medium boxes.
Have 3 thousand BF to choose from
Thanks for all the pointers
 
#17 ·
I have several boxes I built from unplaned poplar. I did make sure all interior dimensions were to plans. I used lap joints and Gorilla Glue and screwed them together with deck screws. I caulked all cracks and gave them two coats of latex paint. My bees seem fine in them and I have 100% survival of my hives so far this winter.
The lumber was cut on my farm so it was cheap, just the cost of sawing, .20 bd. ft.. I'm not sure I would use it if it wasn't cheap.
 
#20 ·
You are correct.. A worn out mill will not cut true.

Other issues include poorly sharpened and set bands
Dull bands
de-tempered bands.
Sawyer in a hurry.
Dirty logs.
Foreign objects in logs.
Log movement due to not sawing to grain or off centered pith.
I am sure other factors can contribute as well, but a good sawyer knows how to fix most of them and culled boards should be few and far between... I always turned them into stickers.
 
#21 ·
Depending on what you are cutting, uniform rough sawn lumber is pretty much a pipe dream. You may get uniform thickness in plantation grown, properly thinned hardwoods, but naturally grown trees are NEVER uniform, and the wood quite often moves while being sawn. Ever watched a 12" flitch bow while you cut boards off it? I have, many times.

Not only that, only perfectly quarter sawn lumber every shrinks uniformly while drying, and even then will sometimes go wonky.

Wavy bandsawn lumber is a result of improperly sharpened or tensioned bands or over-feeding (just like a small bandsaw re-sawing, any excess pressure results in the blade being forced off true), but even then those little portable bandsaws are nowhere near rigid enough to keep that small band from following the grain. Just the nature of the beast. Large stationary bandsaws can wander, too, I've found.

Naturally, a decent sawyer should be on the lookout for this kind of stuff, and saw appropriately. If you have a flitch that won't saw clean one way, flip it. Keep the log set so that the grain is as straight as possible down the log, etc. Helps a lot to know what you are doing, and keeping in mind the nature of wood, a skilled sawyer will get you much better lumber than someone who's sloppy or careless!

My brother had a FoleyBelsaw circle mill for more than 20 years, sawed quite a bit of lumber on it. Learned a lot, too, the hard way.

Peter
 
#24 ·
Excessive propolis buildup is NEVER a problem. Propolis is there for a reason and smooth boards actually are not natural for bees. Propolis helps fight off diseases. Most beekeepers ( experienced and newbees ) think that propolis is used by bees to seal the hives and it is true to some extent. But the real reason bees use propolis is to fight off bacteria in the hives and to kill diseases. I scratch all of my smooth boards so that the bees have MORE room to cake it on.
 
#25 ·
#26 ·
I have talked with Dr Spivak and have tremendous respect for her. She knows more about bees than I will ever hope to know. She does have very limited knowledge though on feral bees and bees living in natural hives as do most of us. I have read the article before and it just reiterates what i said. The more natural we can keep bees, the better off the bees will be. And that includes the boxes and frames.
 
#28 ·
I used some unplaned poplar for a few hives a few years ago. Like was stated before, as long as you make the inside dimensions what they need to be, it will be fine. If I had to do over again, I wouldnt use the poplar. It is way to heavy. It may last a life time, but they are heavy.

In my opinion, a 1x12 #2 pine at my local lumber yard is like 8 bucks. Thats what I make my stuff from. Its pretty cheap, and half or better than the cost of buying hive bodies. I save my rough cut poplar for something else....

Rob
 
#29 ·
Weight is a major consideration! Pine, particularly Ponderosa or White (although the latter is getting rare) works very well because it will last a good long time if painted and has adequate structural strength with minimal weight. White oak or teak would be much better for longevity (both will last decades unpainted in the weather), but are expensive and weigh a ton.

The only real drawback to unplaned lumber is that it is very unlikely to be flat and therefore more work to make sealed boxes from.

The bees coat everything in propolis anyway. I only scrape it off where it get is in the way -- frame rests and where the boxes fit together, and off the sides of the end bars. Why scrape off free weatherproofing? Frames get a nice coating too, if you've not noticed, and it seems to help make them last longer, too. Might be less on flat wood, but it takes less to get a sealed coating too.

Peter
 
#32 ·
If there is internal stress in the wood, it warps, curls, or twists as you cut it and no amount of skill, real or imagined, on the part of the sawyer is gonna do squat to change it.

Dead straight vertical trees tend to have the least behavior like this, but you just never know. Some species of trees, particularly the harder ones, are more prone to internal stress, but it's possible in any tree trunk.

Pretty impressive to watch a 12" flitch warp as you cut boards off, isn't it? Sometimes rotating the flitch 90 degrees helps, but even then we've had a couple that went all over the place.

Thick and thin on opposite ends is a swayer being careless, but wood moving as it's cut you can do nothing about except toss the log to the side and find another.

Also, the only board that will NOT cup some when drying is a true quarter sawn one, and even those can do strange things if the grain isn't dead straight or they are not weighted well enough. Anything else the wood shrinks more across the grain than along it, so it's not gonna be flat when it's dry, nor square anymore.

Peter
 
#35 ·
Also, the only board that will NOT cup some when drying is a true quarter sawn one, and even those can do strange things if the grain isn't dead straight or they are not weighted well enough. Anything else the wood shrinks more across the grain than along it, so it's not gonna be flat when it's dry, nor square anymore.
Quarter sawn will cup the least, flat sawn will cup the most, rift sawn somewhere in between.
 
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