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  1. #1
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    Question Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    We went thru our three hives a week ago. One was queenless and not strong with no egg, brood , one had a virgin queen with very few larva and the other marked queen from last year doing well in brood laying so far on one good frame.. So I ordered a queen. Got her today...all workers dead except one and the queen is still alive. She was shipped last Thursday, got her this afternoon. Tomorrow is the first warm and only day I can do something with her. The queenless hive isn't very strong..shall I still put the new queen in there ...I only have one good frame of brood in the marked queens hive. So do I take the one frame from the good hive and hope she lays more later. What else should I do with this new queen? Make a nuc with her and the queenless hive since they are a weak hive? I am in a pickle here...any suggestions?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    You could give her to the one w/o a queen. Just like a package of bees with a queen. Or, Get rid of the virgin, combine the week one w/o queen, and give them the mated queen. You could also, if you like to play, set up a mating nuc for the virgin. Not very many bees required right away. If she is successful, you can add some brood from your other two when they can spare it, to give them a shot in the arm.
    good luck
    Rick

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    Rick, Thats a great idea. Combine the weak with the virgin hive. Remove the virgin queen and place her in a nuc after placing the newly bought queen in the virgin queens hive, How do I set up the nuc for the virgin queen? Place a couple of frames of bees in that nuc with her? Sounds like a good idea....can you help me step by step? A mating nuc? tell me how...thanks

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    A mating Nuc is just the V queen with enough bees to keep things warm.Couple of frames sounds fine. She does her mating flight and then starts her mission. I use a five frame box. Enough bees to keep the new brood warm till the population increases. By then, your other hive may be able to donate a frame of bees and brood to give them a jump start. Make sure you feed the Nuc. A frame of honey if you have it. Syrup if not. They will not have the resources to feed themselves for a while. Move them to a full size when they out grow the Nuc. Virgins aren't virgins that long in the bee world. Check for eggs before you do this. If she has started laying, you might consider using the purchased Q instead, for your nuc. Just the way I might do things. Others may have different ideas.
    Rick

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    Nawwwww, I'd say now you have four hives! Do a split!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    You have multiple hives, this is good.

    In the future, rather than spending the money, think about moving a frame of eggs and young brood from one of your other hives. If the hive needs it, they will make a new queen. If they don't need it, they will still get the benefit of fresh brood. No extra queen, no $$$ spent, peace of mind. If you are still having problems (such as laying workers) keep adding one frame of brood per week until the problem corrects itself.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    You have multiple hives, this is good.

    In the future, rather than spending the money, think about moving a frame of eggs and young brood from one of your other hives. If the hive needs it, they will make a new queen. If they don't need it, they will still get the benefit of fresh brood. No extra queen, no $$$ spent, peace of mind. If you are still having problems (such as laying workers) keep adding one frame of brood per week until the problem corrects itself.
    I would add that you need to check back a couple days later and see if they've created queen cells. If they have, order a queen unless you've already got some decent genetic diversity. The odds of getting any new genes into your pool if you only have a small handful of hives is slim to none. Once the new queen comes in, pop open and kill the queen cells.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    I totally disagree. With only three hives, there is no way you can have any control whatsoever over your genetics and therefore impossible you could be causing inbreeding to any significant extent.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    I totally disagree. With only three hives, there is no way you can have any control whatsoever over your genetics and therefore impossible you could be causing inbreeding to any significant extent.
    Do you understand how genetics work?

    For starters, if you have only three hives, there's a high probability that you got your packages at the same time... From the same breeder. Meaning there's a high probability that those queens are already related. Purchasing a queen from elsewhere (particularly if a different "race" or from a small local queen grower) significantly increases your odds of introducing new genes to your very small pool. The odds that a virgin queen created in your little hive would mate with feral drones are slim to none. Thus, buying a new queen for each of your hives SIGNIFICANTLY increases the genetic diversity of your little gene pool. Meaning that if there ARE feral hives around, they could mate with YOUR drones, helping the bee population as a whole.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    May I ask where you ordered the queen from? I've been frantically looking for a bred queen with no luck and need one ASAP as well as you did.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    Quote Originally Posted by ilivetobealive View Post
    May I ask where you ordered the queen from? I've been frantically looking for a bred queen with no luck and need one ASAP as well as you did.
    I'm incredibly happy with the queen I got from Purvis. She's the only hive out of three late fall splits (I beat my bees up bad this year) that made it through the winter. Which really says something about their mantra of selecting and breeding queens specifically for their survivability. http://www.purvisbees.com/

    Their website isn't exactly fantastic, but give them a call, they're easy enough to work with.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Javin007 View Post
    Do you understand how genetics work?
    Yes, do you understand how honeybees work?


    Quote Originally Posted by Javin007 View Post
    Meaning there's a high probability that those queens are already related.
    Pure conjecture.


    Quote Originally Posted by Javin007 View Post
    introducing new genes to your very small pool.
    It's not a pool, it's a lake and 3 hives are a bucket full.


    Quote Originally Posted by Javin007 View Post
    feral drones are slim to none.
    The odds of this virgin queen mating with drones from these three hives are nil to zero. She will be mating with drones from somewhere else, be they feral or other.


    Quote Originally Posted by Javin007 View Post
    YOUR drones, helping the bee population as a whole.
    Kept hives have little impact on the true feral population because kept bees most often die when they get loose.


    Please slow down. You're not going to make any friends posting willy nilly like this.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    Yes, do you understand how honeybees work?


    Pure conjecture.


    It's not a pool, it's a lake and 3 hives are a bucket full.


    The odds of this virgin queen mating with drones from these three hives are nil to zero. She will be mating with drones from somewhere else, be they feral or other.


    Kept hives have little impact on the true feral population because kept bees most often die when they get loose.


    Please slow down. You're not going to make any friends posting willy nilly like this.
    Wow... Just... Wow... I don't even know where to begin...

    1.) 3 Hives with queens that are likely from the same genetic pool most certainly is a tiny gene pool.
    2.) A queen is not LIKELY to mate with drones from her OWN hive. But WILL most certainly if no others are available. Jay Smith believes they will fly up to 4 miles to mate, but a queen very well WILL mate with bees right in their own bee yard. I've seen it, as have about a billion other bee keepers. Sorry, you're dead wrong.
    3.) ALL feral populations of bees are "kept bees." Where do you think they came from? Bees are not native to the U.S., and in the short time they've been here (less than 400 years) they most certainly have not "evolved" into two completely separate species. The idea that a swarm from a "kept hive" couldn't survive in the wild is patently absurd.
    Last edited by Barry; 03-19-2013 at 04:34 PM. Reason: keep it civil

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    This is not YouTube. Check yourself.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  15. #15
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    Wink Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    You have multiple hives, this is good.

    In the future, rather than spending the money, think about moving a frame of eggs and young brood from one of your other hives. If the hive needs it, they will make a new queen. If they don't need it, they will still get the benefit of fresh brood. No extra queen, no $$$ spent, peace of mind. If you are still having problems (such as laying workers) keep adding one frame of brood per week until the problem corrects itself.
    Yes, I would like to do this. I don't call myself the "Lousy Beekeeper" for nothing. Seems I never know quite what to do ...I have gone to meetings had M Beekeeper over, and I real alot. None the less, I loose hives for some reason or another. Ok...so with this new queen I received from Wolf Creek, she's organic, I had to combine the weak hive with no queen with the virgin queen hive as I did see some eggs in her hive so I decided not to move her to the nuc. I placed the new queen in a nuc with brood, larva from the only hive that was looking good and laying (she is from last year and survived) and a frame of honey and placed her box into the nuc. There was only one worker bee and the queen alive so I had to act fast. Today is the only day in the low 60's and sun finally, later to grow cold and rain again. (I am so sick of the rain). So again, I can only wait to see what I've done.....wish me luck.....The lousy beekeeper, Shar.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    Shar, I don't believe in luck, but I hope you succeed. Keep asking questions and keep trying. Experience is something you don't get until just after you needed it.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    This is not YouTube. Check yourself.
    You insult/attack me while stating completely incorrect information, and when I reply, I'm ordered to "check myself." Sure thing, cowboy.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick 1456 View Post
    A mating Nuc is just the V queen with enough bees to keep things warm.Couple of frames sounds fine. She does her mating flight and then starts her mission. I use a five frame box. Enough bees to keep the new brood warm till the population increases. By then, your other hive may be able to donate a frame of bees and brood to give them a jump start. Make sure you feed the Nuc. A frame of honey if you have it. Syrup if not. They will not have the resources to feed themselves for a while. Move them to a full size when they out grow the Nuc. Virgins aren't virgins that long in the bee world. Check for eggs before you do this. If she has started laying, you might consider using the purchased Q instead, for your nuc. Just the way I might do things. Others may have different ideas.
    Rick
    Rick...here's what I did,. Since the ordered queen had only one worker left (the others died in transit). One hive virgin queen (I looked and found some few eggs and few larva) so she must have mated recently? One hive completely queenless, no larva, eggs and fewer bees than before so I combined this queenless hive with the so called virgin queen hive. just let her do her thing I guess as the queenless hive had even fewer bees. I placed the new ordered queen in the nuc with a frame of brood and honey from the only hive that was participating ...I really am becoming very very disappointed in myself. I can only think this was what I should do as I was loosing the queenless hive anyway. I'm just hoping I can change my status from lousy beekeeper to ok beekeeper.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    Javin007, with all due respect, your information is not correct and I have not insulted anyone. Your attitude is excessive for this simple disagreement and it is uncalled for.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Thought hive was queen less so ordered a queen. What to do now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    Javin007, with all due respect, your information is not correct and I have not insulted anyone. Your attitude is excessive for this simple disagreement and it is uncalled for.
    I'll take this to PM with you. It doesn't belong here. But for the record, my information is 100% correct.

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