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Thread: Herbicide

  1. #1
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    Default Herbicide

    Im a first year with 7 Hives, 6 doing very well.

    Im trying to juggle keeping the bees with having a decently kept property. Im losing the battle to crabgrass. I dont want to go the roundup route and the vinegar route does not seem to be a good enough option. Is there a ground clear out that wont harm the bees at all?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    Roundup does not harm bees, I use it in front of my hives regularly.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    Roundup is a Monsanto company brand. But the underlying product is called 'glyphosate', and is available from many sources other than Monsanto.

    I use glyphosate from Cornerstone, its economical, it works well, and as camero7 noted, glyphosate doesn't harm bees.


    Note that typically glyphosate formulations include a surfactant (in effect, soapy water) to reduce surface tension and achieve a finer mist. Soapy water, if sprayed directly on bees, can block their breathing tubes and kill them. Avoid spraying anything with surfactants directly on bees.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    Im sorry, I was under the understanding that glyphosate messed up their navigation and foraging ability.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/046769_Ro..._disorder.html

    and

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25063858

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    I have hives in my garden and simply lay down big sheets of cardboard around the hives and throw some spoiled hay on top for aesthetics.

    I do the same in the pumpkin and squash patches and never have to buy poisons and spend little time on weeding.

    Wayne

  6. #6
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    Powhatan, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    I agree with Cam and Radar you can use Roundup safely to knock out the crabgrass. Be carefull not to get it on the hives or bees. In agricutural use it is sprayed to clean up everything before planting no till crops so the bees get exposed as they are foraging the weeds. Your crabgrass won't be something they are bringing anything to the hive from. Wayne has a point but with the agressive root system crabgrass will grow under and through most mulches.
    Last edited by John Davis; 07-28-2015 at 01:13 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    Here's what I use. Works like a charm - http://www.amazon.com/Compare-N-Save...KXXEC70GX1GDMF
    Justin from Jersey. Started five hives in 2015... down to four now.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    I use it around my hives with no problems.
    Ninja, is not in the dictionary. Well played Ninja's, well played...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    Quote Originally Posted by bostonrob View Post
    Im sorry, I was under the understanding that glyphosate messed up their navigation and foraging ability.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/046769_Ro..._disorder.html

    and

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25063858
    You've been hoodwinked. Naturalnews.com is not a reliable source. They've an agenda and they're sticking to it!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Dewey View Post
    You've been hoodwinked. Naturalnews.com is not a reliable source. They've an agenda and they're sticking to it!
    Curious, Andrew. Bostonrob's second link was to a study made available on the National Institute of Health's website. Is that also an agenda-driven source?

    Of course Monsanto's researchers have no agenda.

    Wayne

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    Quote Originally Posted by waynesgarden View Post
    Curious, Andrew. Bostonrob's second link was to a study made available on the National Institute of Health's website. Is that also an agenda-driven source?

    Of course Monsanto's researchers have no agenda.

    Wayne
    Well,this study "speculates" and uses "acute doses" to determine problems. I don't think spraying a few weeds rises to that level. Also there is stuff on Pub Med all the time that is suspect and poorly done. Just saying...

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    Quote Originally Posted by waynesgarden View Post
    Curious, Andrew. Bostonrob's second link was to a study made available on the National Institute of Health's website. Is that also an agenda-driven source?

    Of course Monsanto's researchers have no agenda.

    Wayne
    The last line of the abstract contains: "we speculate that successful forager bees could become" (highlights mine)

    That certainly is a declaration of confidence if I ever did see one.

    The state of peer review has become pathetic.
    Starting on my second year, lots of learning still to do...

  13. #13
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    Vauxhall, Alberta, Canada
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    Hello,

    I farm, I zero till, I use glyphosate, but: only in spring before seeding and in fall after September 15th. It is a good herbicide and safer then spraying a small handful of selective chemicals, but it is a chemical, lets use it wisely, very wisely!

    Around my hive it is not wanted, needed or helpful because it has no brain and kills anything except glyphosate tolerant crops, in our area canola = 00 spring rape seed.

    Now, if I would use it around my hive it would create a blank floor for a short time, but after late germinating weeds and grasses would take over and than I have to use it again and again.

    If you like to use glyphosate, then seed a good grass mix suitable for your area when all weeds are yellow to brown and mow it to keep it short. My wife mows the grass around our hive as close as she can get and I use a weed trimmer when the sun is gone, have not had any problems and it is clean around the hive.

    Let the bees bee,

    Cheers, Joerg
    Summ Summ Bienchen summ herum

  14. #14
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    Couldnt agree more Joerg, Glyphosate isn't going to hurt your bees and it will most definitely kill weeds. The trouble is, something is going to regrow in that spot and it's usually your most troublesome weed.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    Quote Originally Posted by D Coates View Post
    I use it around my hives with no problems.
    +1, I try to use late evening if possible.
    Brent
    Zone 6a, Started April 2014

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    Quote Originally Posted by maudbid View Post
    The last line of the abstract contains: "we speculate that successful forager bees could become" (highlights mine)

    That certainly is a declaration of confidence if I ever did see one.
    I admit to not having an advanced degree or experience in scientific research so I may not be as qualified as Maudbid appears to be to comment on the state of peer-reviewed scientific research but I notice that he or she ignores the rest of the abstract ( and may I assume the full text,) keying in on the word "speculate" in the abstract and believes he or she found a "smoking gun" that somehow debunks the study.

    If one had read the entire abstract, or heavens, the text of the study, it would have been clear that the study's findings were clearly presented as factual results of the experimentation and the single speculation that was focused on was also based on the findings and was clearly presented as just that, speculation. Perhaps maudbid has never read a study or abstract that presented a speculation based on the study's findings but I have come across it frequently as it is a tool researchers often use to "tidy up" questions the study could not answer or to posit ideas that were outside the scope of the study's focus or methodology but related to the study's findings and deemed important enough for further research or discussion. It seems that to me that bad science is a study presents a speculation without identifying it as such. It also appears that good science can raise more questions then it answers.

    The American Psychological Associations guidelines on research papers says "Speculation is fine as long as you acknowledge that you're speculating and you don't stray too far from your data." Regarding the discussion portion of a paper, their author states that the "point of a discussion, in my view, is to transcend 'just the facts,' and engage in productive speculation." Howard University's guidelines are clear where speculation belongs in a research paper. Not in the Results section of the paper. "Do NOT discuss the results or speculate as to why something happened; that goes in the Discussion." (Did a little research of my own here.)

    Again, these ideas of mine are based only on my having read many scientific papers without having been actually involved in writing them. Perhaps maudbid or others with superior education and experience in advanced research will correct me if my amateur and naive ideas of scientific studies are off-base.

    Wayne

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    That last line is the money shot. Without that link to real life then this study is not relevant to the question they are investigating. A much better way to put it would be
    "Further work needs to be performed to determine if field exposures to glyphosate match the levels of exposures used in this study."

    The statement as it stands does two things for me:
    - It made me question the rigor of the study, which is what drove me to analyze the paper the first time I saw this link.
    - It does feed the phenomenon of confirmation bias.

    I read the paper. It basically states that putting sub-lethal, application concentrations of a chemical directly into the feed of bees in a lab appears to result in small differences in the behaviors of the bees. None of the work was replicated, and there are several distinct areas where random, uncontrolled variation could account for the small differences.

    There was no work to determine if glyphosate is ever ingested by bees at this concentration, especially the pre-foraging bees which were the only bees which were found to be impacted or referred to in their speculation. They do not speculate that the act of foraging for nectar would reduce the concentrations of glyposphate actually brought back to the hive, which is the most significant link they need to consider before concluding their speculation is potentially valid.

    To me the most egregious error in their paper is this statement which is nothing but hyperbole, since there is no reason to believe there would ever be a constant inflow into the hive with normal agricultural practices.
    "The constant inflow of GLY into the hive means that the agrochemical would accumulate in the hive's stores, which would then be fed to larvae and young bees and used as sustenance for the whole colony during the winter."

    Quote Originally Posted by waynesgarden View Post
    Again, these ideas of mine are based only on my having read many scientific papers without having been actually involved in writing them. Perhaps maudbid or others with superior education and experience in advanced research will correct me if my amateur and naive ideas of scientific studies are off-base.
    Do you find patronizing elevates a discussion? I find it not useful.
    Starting on my second year, lots of learning still to do...

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    My bee hives are in an area that I covered with gravel. I spread rock salt lightly (like the type used for making ice cream) around the hives about once a year. There are no weeds or anything growing near the hives.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    Quote Originally Posted by bostonrob View Post
    Im sorry, I was under the understanding that glyphosate messed up their navigation and foraging ability.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/046769_Ro..._disorder.html

    and

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25063858
    Define "messed up".



    Once again, don't feed bees herbicides or pesticides and there wil lbe no problem:

    "We started by performing an elemental PER conditioning assay with 0 or 2.5 mg GLY per litre of 1.8 mol l−1 sucrose solution as reward"
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Herbicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabber86 View Post
    Define "messed up".

    Once again, don't feed bees herbicides or pesticides and there wil lbe no problem:

    "We started by performing an elemental PER conditioning assay with 0 or 2.5 mg GLY per litre of 1.8 mol l−1 sucrose solution as reward"
    This is exactly why people shouldn't blindly trust "studies". These idiots are feeding glyphosate directly to the bees and then making note (and pushing their agenda) of associated problems. How long does applied glyphosate stay wet such that bees could ingest it? How many flowers would it get on and into before the glyphosate numbers they directly fed to the bees would be achieved? How many days in a row would this have to happen? Keep in mind there's no need to reapply glyphosate during the lifespan of a standard bee. Absolute agenda driven garbage.
    Ninja, is not in the dictionary. Well played Ninja's, well played...

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